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Old metal detector

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The best way to become acquainted with a subject is to write a book about it. Benjamin Disraeli

find £500000 treasure

His tools is only an old metal detector but he already has find £500000 treasure. Peter Beasley, a former bricklayer, 68, digs for six hours-a-day, three days-a-week on fields close to his home in Waterlooville, Hants. Mr Beasley began the hobby 1979 when a work colleague sold his metal detector to him for £80, after he fell down a well on a dig. Within two years he was regularly finding coins and other artefact’s dating back to Roman and Norman times, most of which have been given back to the farmers who own the land as a thank you present.

 

Photo by Telegraph.co.uk: Roman coins found by Mr. Beasley.


He found a solid gold Roman pendant unearthed in Hampshire about 10 years ago and it has been auctioned off for £30,000 in London. Inscribed with the letters TI CAESAR, the artefact’s is cast as a bust of the Roman emperor wearing a laurel wreath and dates back to the first Century AD. Mr. Beasley,found the jewellery in a field near Alton, in December 1999. He has found a 24K gold ring that he believe belong to a royalty in a field in Petersfield in 2008. Mr Beasley think the ring belong to Robert, the eldest son of William the conquerer, as it has his name engraved on it. He maybe will be selling the Norman ring later this year with a guide price of £80,000. His biggest sale was a haul of 250 Roman coins found in fields near Petersfield for £100,000 to the British Museum in 1996.

 

Photo by BBC News: Caesar gold Roman pendant


Mr Beasley said: “I just love exploring and it is all about the discovery. I came into this business as a hobby to keep me out of the house but it is serious.”

“I am fascinated by the history of our land and it is the buzz of finding something it is a great feeling to dig something up that you know is hundreds of years old. Or course I have found an awful lot of tat down the years, moles’ teeth and countless pieces of scrap metal, but you have to keep going – it is an obsession.”

He said: “The land between Chichester and Winchester is land that belonged to William the Conqueror so it is littered with potential finds.

“There are hundreds of us out there and you have to be thorough in doing your research.”

“It is really hard work, being out in all-weather when I come home I am absolutely knackered.”
He said he still rues the find that got away when he unearthed a Saxon shield, spears and a skeleton while roaming fields at Clanfield.

After a dispute with the landowner he was banned from the 15-acre site, which he believes is home to a Saxon haul of jewellery and up to 3,000 graves worth millions.

Mr Beasley has since stumbled upon another prize find, a six-inch square piece of lead discovered at the site of a Roman villa near Winchester with a grid pattern etched onto it.
He believes it acts as a map for locating estates of Roman soldiers who retired to the south of England after fighting for the empire.

He said: “I have a theory that it can help me find anything, anywhere it Europe.”

“If it was to get into the wrong hands it could have devastating effects but I am determined to use it for the good of history.”

This guy sound like a professional metal detector digger. With a £500000 treasure, he sure don’t need his pension money. But his found sound like need a lots of hardwork and determination. He has been digging treasure for 30 years, that are lots of experience. Do any Malaysian try using metal detector before to find treasure? A friend once told me that people dig old coins near Melaka river few years back.


Source: Telegraph.co.uk , BBC News

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/05/old-metal-detector-find-500000-treasure.html#ixzz1qK5Vnjx6

Another story of a lucky man found a coins collection in his new house. Fred Murray from Winnipeg, Canada uncovered a bunch of old currency stashed in the basement ceiling of his home during a renovation project.

He found Canadian currency; ranging from regular and commemorative coins to paper money, including the 25 cent bills commonly known as shinplasters to $100 bills.

The collection also included foreign cash from Weimar Germany, 1920s China and the United States, stamps from numerous countries and clippings from Winnipeg newspapers.

 

Photo by CBC News: Fred Murray finds, ready to shipped for auction.


Fred Murray bought the old bungalow in Elmwood and recently decided to renovate the basement, spurred on by the federal government’s home renovation tax credit.

From older neighbours, Murray found out the house was built by a German immigrant named Albert Schmidt in the 1940s, whose identification he also found in the rafters.

He lived in the home until sometime in the 1970s. It was when he ripped out ceiling panels in the 750 square foot home’s basement that he realized he’d be supplementing that funding with some older money.

When he encountered trouble feeding an electrical wire through the ceiling, he started to remove the panels.

That’s when he found the cash and coins packed in cloth bags, pill bottles and tobacco cans.

“The oldest coin I found was from 1859. It was a penny,” Murray said.

“If it pays for the house, it’s a bonus,” said the 54-year-old.

He took his find to local collectors but said there wasn’t much interest, so he plans to send everything to an auction house in Eastern Canada.

“It’s all getting shipped off. I have no intentions of keeping it, and no one here in the city seems to be serious about it,” he said.

“So I am shipping it off to Quebec and from there it goes to Toronto. And then it will end up in an auction.”

While Murray said he knew nothing about collectible currency or stamps before his demolition find, he’s now a little more up to speed. However, he’s not interested enough to hold onto the collection and plans to ship it off this weekend to an Eastern Canada auction house. He said he has no idea what he’ll get for the collection but plans to put it right back into the renovations.

I wish I am as lucky as this man but I think there are no interest because the item is not valuable to collector.


Source: CBC News, Toronto Sun.

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/05/coin-collection-found-in-ceiling.html#ixzz1qK5lBzl1

Do you want to buy a house and at the same time get free gold? Not just one but 10 pieces of coins. Not just normal coins but an old one to. This sound like a scam to everyone but who know when do you get so lucky. Like this guy, Darcy Carter from Saint John, Canada who found leather purse contained 10 U.S. gold coins minted in the 1860s and ’70s. Darcy Carter was putting down hardwood flooring on the second storey of his west side home when he pulled up the top step and found the treasure.

 

 

Photo by wood TV: Coin found by Darcy Carter.

 

 

 

Photo by CBC News: Darcy Carter.

 

“It was something tucked in there, under the stair for a rainy day.”

 

“It was in a little coin purse that looked similar to a child’s marble bag,” he said.

 

“We lifted that board up and the coins were in a little sack. My wife is dreaming of her new counter top and I think she very much deserves it so that’s where the money’s going to go, into our new kitchen,” said Carter.

 

One of the $20 coins, which is in pristine condition, is worth about $9,000, according to an appraiser. The U.S. gold coins, called Double Eagles with the liberty head design, were minted in the 1860s and 1870s.

 

“There was a lot of trade that went on from the Saint John, Halifax and all our area down to the eastern United States, so that it’s not surprising that somebody might bring these back with them and tuck them away,” said Geoffrey Bell, a coin expert from Saint John.

 

 

Photo by CBC News: Coin found under this stair.

 

Carter hasn’t decided what he’s going to do with the antique coins yet. He said he might put them toward his renovation costs, or save them for a rainy day.After that valuable treasure found at his new home, Carter plans

to carry on the tradition by leaving a keepsake of his own behind for someone else to find. It won’t be gold though. Just a regular old quarter. He is certainly a lucky man. Who say you cannot get free gold when you bought a new house. Next time you doing some renovation to your home, make sure you check every inch of the house. Who know, it maybe your lucky day.

 

Do you know what happen after you don’t claimed your item from safe deposit box that you rent from bank? In United States, it will be auctioned by The State Treasurer Office. In a news I found via masslive.com, State Treasurer’s Office shows off abandoned property up for auction on eBay, beginning yesterday. The items up for auction are all unclaimed property found in safe deposit boxes that has been turned over to the state by various banks. When the rent on a safe deposit box lapses, the banks will open the lock and seek to return the item to the rightful owner. If the owner cannot be found, the property is turned over to the state treasurer’s office, which takes over the search.

Photo by Republican staff Michael S. Gordon: Beatles watch.


Some of the items that will be auctioned, what looked like a beat-up quarter with a hole in it, but was actually a George Washington funeral medal issued by the Boston Masonic Lodge upon the first president’s death in 1799. A Silver Beatles watch, a gold version sold for $230,000, this version is silver but still such a historical and rare item. Under the watchful eyes of two state troopers, members of the public could look over the several cases of rare coins and paper money, jewelry, watches, and assorted knickknacks that will be put up for auction. One case on display Thursday contained about $250,000 in gold and diamonds, and officials were hoping it would being in twice that at auction.

Photo by Republican staff Michael S. Gordon: Unclaimed paper money.


James F. Roy and officials with the abandoned property division had several cases on display in the lobby of the Western Massachusetts State Office Building, 436 State St, as part of a one day stopover. From Saturday through July 1, the state hopes to auction off 2,500 lots of abandoned property, ranging in value from a few cents to as much as $70,000. Roy would like to bid on the medal, but can’t. As tangible property manager for the state treasurer’s office, Roy is not permitted to bid on anything in the auction.

What about Malaysia, are abandon safe deposit box items in Malaysia will also be auctioned? Do anyone know about this? This kind of auctioned will certainly something that I will not missed. But selling them on eBay will bring up some competitor for the bid.

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/04/safe-deposit-box-unclaimed-property.html#ixzz1qK77QLzY

A news by BBC reported a rare piece of Falmouth Banknote produced in 1808 fetched £500 in a specialist auction on Wednesday 14th April. Falmouth is a town, civil parish and port on the River Fal on the south coast of Cornwall, United Kingdom. The name Falmouth comes from the river Fal but the origin of the river’s name is unknown. In recent years these types of notes have risen in popularity and value because of their many varieties, one sold in 2004 for £540.


The bank that produced the black and white piece of currency folded just two years after its production, enhancing its rarity. It was highly sought after according to auctioneers Spink, because it was never issued and has remained in “very fine” condition. Although it was only expected to sell for between £350 and £450, two bidders at Spink in London, one in person and one via phone fought hard to obtain the piece of Cornish financial history.

Reflecting on the notes origin, auctioneer Barnaby Faul said: “All towns and cities in England used to issue their own banknotes.

“Privately-owned merchants would start up their own banks, but their notes, which were like IOUs, could only be used locally. When these local banks, like Falmouth, went bust, their notes became completely worthless.”

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/04/1-falmouth-banknote-sold-for-500.html#ixzz1qK7Mdepp

This is the last post from three of Malaysia Numismatic Society (MNS) auction no.143. The auction held on 28 March 2010 at Jabatan Muzium Malaysia, Malaysia National Museum, Kuala Lumpur. The auction start at 10.45am with MNS president Mr. Thenakaran Nadarajah himself as a auctioneer. Mr. Lawrence De Souza (guy sitting with the bidders card) act as a bidder for mail bidders. There are only around 45 members of the society who participated in the bidding process.

 

This year, the crowd are very small compare with the last auction held by this society in 2005. Only around 70 people are watching the auction session. Most of them are almost the same age with me or a bit older. I can only see two kids brought by their parents in this auction. look like, kids nowadays really doesn’t interested on coins or banknotes collecting. Most of them were really interested on video games and social network like facebook. I start my collecting at the age of 15. With all the travelling and hunting around Malaysia, it is a rare sight, looking that kids participating in this kind of hobbies. One day, we can only see this kind of stuff in the museum.

 

Back to the auction, I cannot stay for the full auction that day. I am also cannot take the full video of the auction. I am sorry, will try to do better next time. This is the first time I am doing a post about any auction. Look like my digital camera is a bit slow. Look like the Malaysia 10th Series RM1 CR 7204131 Ali Abul Hassan signature with a reserve price of RM1650 ended up with no single bid, there is one seller at the bourse table selling the same CR prefix banknotes at RM1150 that day. That mean, to anyone who still looking for UNC CR Ali Abul signature, you still can get it for RM1000 this year.

 

The Malaya $10 1941 D/60 019898 extremely fine condition and with nice number too, end up at RM850. That is consider a way cheaper then the market price. Only two bidder, make a bid on that item. Malaysia 1st Series RM100 A/1 323396 Ismail Ali’s signature end up at RM4000. The United States Replacement $1 B 00098644 notes, end price is RM50. If any of you, MNS members have the complete auction list sale price, it will be a little bit of help to send the link in here or e-mail it to me at lunaticg@gmail.com.

 

One suggestion to MNS committee members, it is better nowadays if live online auction been done, instead of offline sale like this. It will be a bit hard to start with the website but in the end, it will benefit the society more. Most collector are not in Kuala Lumpur. It will added transportation cost for members from Penang, Kedah, Sabah or even Sarawak come to Kuala Lumpur, simply for the auction. More people bidding, means a good and healthy auction for the society. Many people also email me asking if any website is holding auction for coins and banknotes in Malaysia. This society can help member sale their items with accurate grading and reasonable reserve price. This is also one way to promote the society to the public and make people interested on joining the society. No pun intended but right now, what I see is that this society trying to hide their activity to the public (or maybe there is no activity at all). This society exist since 1968, why not make a change? For the benefit of the society and Malaysia Numismatic.

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/04/mns-auction-no-143.html#ixzz1qK7n9DB7

To anyone who haven’t read my post yesterday, this is one of 3 series of posts about a Malaysia Numismatic Society (MNS) auction day at Jabatan Muzium Malaysia, Malaysia National Museum, Kuala Lumpur held on 28 March 2010. This post is about Malaysia Numismatic Society Auction No.143 viewing auction session. The viewing session start as soon as their Annual General Meeting finish at around 10.00am. A blue table tennis (ping pong) table is used for displaying the item with few of the committee members act as security to make sure anyone not running with the items on display.

 

There are 120 items on display for the auction that day. Items arranged according to their number in the list. All of the items came from MNS member who want to sell their collection. There are around 30 people who came and interested to view the items on auction. With most of them interested to view auction item number 1 until 20. Especially Malaysia 1st Series RM100 A/1 323396 Ismail Ali’s signature. Some even bring their UV light tools for item viewing, just to make sure what they want to buy is genuine and haven’t been washed.

It is a bit shock for me to see that members and visitors are allowed to touch the auction items. Even though the items is put in a plastic, with so many people come and touching that item, there is big probability some of the items will get folded. This for sure will effect the grading of the banknote. The viewing session going on for about 20 minutes. At that time, the place is sound like I am in a wet market. Sorry if I need to slow down the volume in the video or any of that sound came through.

Its a bit hard to take picture of the viewing session. Only the close up picture of the items came through clear and sharp at the end since I am only bring a small compact digital camera. The items viewing session ended around 10.30am. The MNS President then announce that the auction session will be starting at around 10.45am. I will post that auction session tomorrow. Just make sure you keep on coming and read them.

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/04/mns-auction-143-item-viewing-session.html#ixzz1qK84oOTt

A Monetary Museum in Purbalingga, Central Java claimed has a complete collection of currencies from 183 countries, largest world currency collection as reported by Jakarta Post. Inaugurated by Purbalingga Regent Triyono Budi Sasongko six months ago, the museum broke the country, or even the world, record as the museum with the largest collection of foreign currencies. The award was presented by Paulus Pangka from the Indonesian Records Museum (MURI). The Museum has been open since 18 December 2008.

Photo by albumphotodeni.blogspot.com: Museum money collection.


This museum is located in the same complex as three other museums in Kutasari village, Kutasari district, only about 4 kilometers north of the heart of the capital of Purbalingga regency. The other museums are the Reptile Museum, the Wayang (Puppet) and Archeology Museum and the Museum of Science and Technology. The three museums, along with a nearby reptile park, were inaugurated at the end of 2009.

Prayitno, a spokesman for the Purbalingga administration, said the Monetary Museum was built on an idea from the regent, who will retire soon. “His term will end in April. He had a huge collection of foreign currencies, so the museum was constructed so that the public could enjoy his collection too,” he told the Post.

Prayitno said that Regent Triyono had collected the international currencies when he traveled to other countries. “He said every time he left the country, he would change some money and bring it home for his collection. He did it a long time ago, when he was an employee at the Home Ministry.”

Photo by Jakarta Post: A visitor looking at the collection using magnifying glass.


Triyono acknowledged that the money at the museum was his private collection. He started to collect foreign currencies more than 15 years ago. The regent, who is currently in the post for his second term, hoped that after his term ended, the currency collection could become his memorial and an educational resource for people, especially Purbalingga residents.

“I can say that the museum has the largest collection in Indonesia, and maybe in the world. That’s why it has received an award from the Records Museum (MURI) as the museum with the largest currency collection,” Triyono said recently.

He said whenever he traveled overseas he would buy foreign currency at the airport before he left for home. “I always bought foreign currency. I bought it with my own money. I enjoy collecting currency from various countries, including old coins. As my collection grew, I do not know where to keep it all, so I make the best of it by building a monetary museum,” Triyono said.

He hoped the existence of the museum would improve the tourism potential in Purbalingga.

“Before the museum was built, the number of tourists in 2008 and 2009 had reached more than 1 million in a year. Hopefully, there will be more tourist arrivals in the future,” Triyono said.

 

Photo by albumphotodeni.blogspot.com: Museum money collection.

 

Photo by albumphotodeni.blogspot.com: Museum antique and vintage item collection.


This is one museum I certainly want to visit. I am looking for other information about this museum but cannot find any. Look like this museum is allowing their visitor to take picture of their collection. I has seen many blogger posted their photo in the museum. It is certainly a big different in Malaysia since most museum in this country doesn’t allowed photo taken in their premise. Maybe they afraid of theft and break in or just don’t want to hire a reliable security guard.


Source: Jakarta Post, albumphotodeni.blogspot.com

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/04/largest-world-currency-collection.html#ixzz1qK8QCu5t

The “Ides of March”: a Medal of Julius Caesar assassin is shown at British Museum. This unique gold coin, minted by Caesar’s betrayer, Brutus, which may have been worn as a boastful talisman by one of the emperor’s killers. The gold coin struck by Brutus soon after the assassination of Julius Caesar on 15 March 44BC. The British Museum was first shown the coin in 1932 but couldn’t afford to buy it. Many private owners later, it has now been loaned to the museum, and will be displayed for the first time. The gold medal is on display in British Museum starting 15 March, marking the 2,054th anniversary of Julius Ceaser death.

Photo by Guardian UK: Julius Ceaser assasin medallion.

 

Caesar was struck down at the Senate, stabbed 23 times, in 44BC. The coin was among those issued by Caesar’s former friend and ally, Brutus, leader of the conspirators, after they fled to Greece. The coin shows the head of Brutus on one side and, on the other, two daggers and the date, Eid Mar, the Ides of March, which would forever after be regarded as unlucky. The daggers flank a pileus, a freeman’s hat, symbolising the conspirators’ insistance that in killing Caesar they were toppling a tyrant who threatened the future of the Roman republic. The coin was punched with a hole shortly after it was minted, probably so it could be worn – certainly by a supporter, conceivably by one of the conspirators.

Photo by the New York Times: Gold coin that expert believe is fake


The swaggering imagery displayed on the coin was already famous in antiquity. In the second century AD, the Roman historian Cassius Dio wrote: “Brutus stamped upon the coins which were being minted in his own likeness and a cap and two daggers, indicating by this and by the inscription that he and Cassius had liberated the fatherland.” Although 60 surviving examples of the silver version are known, including several in the museum’s coins and medals collection, there were only believed to be two in gold. Experts now believe one of those is a fake, making the newly displayed treasure unique.

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/03/medal-of-julius-caesar-assassin-in.html#ixzz1qK8esIkv

More than 250 silver coins dating back to the time of Alexander the Great were unearthed in northern Syria, a Syrian archaeologist said Thursday via Associated Press. Youssef Kanjo, the head of archaeological excavations in the ancient city of Aleppo, said the coins were discovered two weeks ago in northern Syria when a local man was digging the foundations of his new home. The man handed the coins, that were found in a bonze box, to authorities, Kanjo said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

The coins date from the Hellenic period, which ranges from 4th to the 1st centuries B.C. after Macedonian warrior-king Alexander the Great spread Greek culture into Middle East and beyond with his conquests. Kanjo added that the box contained two groups of coins, 137 “tetra” drachmas (four drachmas) and 115 single drachma coins. One side of the tetra drachma coins depicts Alexander the Great, while the other side shows the Greek god Zeus sitting on a throne with an eagle perched on his extended arm. Some of the coins bear the inscription King Alexander in Greek, while others say Alexander or carry the name of King Philip, most likely referring to his father.After Alexander the Great’s conquests, many of the successor kingdoms in the Middle East adopted drachmas as their currency.

“The discovery is extremely important and would be added to our archaeological treasures that date back to the Hellenic era,” Kanjo said.

I am not an ancient collector but with this beautiful coin, I certainly looking forward to owned one. In the news, there is no story about what the man who found this coin get. With Alexander The Great coin he found on his ground, someone for sure want to buy it from him. But he is a honest men, reporting what he found to the Syrian archaeologist without someone mention his name. Form me, this is a great find


Source: By ALBERT AJI (Associated Press), Photo by Syrian official news agency SANA .

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/03/alexander-coin-found-in-syria.html#ixzz1qK8oKnAk

A Bulgaria Ancient Thrace sites in the Starosel Tomb, has been dated to the 4th century BC after years of research. A team of archaeologists of the Bulgarian National History Museum led by Dr. Ivan Hristov has managed to estimate the timing of the construction of the largest underground temple on the Balkan Peninsula, the Starosel Tomb, located in the Hisarya Municipality, Plovdiv District. Dr. Hristov’s analysis found that the Starosel tomb and underground temple complex were built by Thracian King Amatokos II (359-351 BC), of the Thracian Odrysian state (5th-3rd century BC).

Photo by novinite.com: Thracian coins

 

In the summer of 2009, the archaeological team took samples from a stake in the middle of the tomb where gifts to the Greek goddess of the hearth Hestia were laid. The radio carbon dating analysis carried out in Heidelberg, Germany, in the laboratory of Dr. Bernd Krommer, have shown that the stake was burned in the period after 358 BC, when the temple was constructed, and the earth was heaped on top of it to form a burial mound.

The analysis of the lab research and of the events which happened at that time have given archaeologist Ivan Hristov grounds to conclude that the temple in the village of Starosel, in the so called Chetinyova Mound, and the nearby Thracian ruler’s residence under Mount Kozi Gramadi were built during the reign of the Thracian King Amatokos II (359-351 BC), of the Thracian Odrysian state (5th-3rd century BC). The family coat of arms of King Amatokos was a doubleheaded ax, or a labrys. Symbols of a labrys were discovered on several items around Starosel, including Thracian coins. Before Dr. Hristov’s analysis, the researchers of Ancient Thrace believed that the Starosel tomb and underground temple complex were built by King Sitalces (445-424 BC), the third ruler of the Odrysian State.

The Thracian objects in the region of Starosel were also in operation during the reign of King Teres II (351-341 BC). The archaeologists believe that the region was the power center of Ancient Thrace in the 4th century BC. It was destroyed during the rise of the Macedonian state of Philip II in 342-341 BC. The Bulgarian archaeologists have reconstructed the so called “Holy Road” of the Thracians leading to their underground temples in Starosel, and are determined to continue revealing its secrets. Archaeologist Ivan Hristov is preparing a book on the Chetinyova Mound in order to tell the story of the Temple of the Immortal Thracian Kings there.

Starosel is a village in central Bulgaria, part of Hisarya municipality, Plovdiv Province. It lies at the foot of the Sredna Gora mountain range and the Pyasachnik River crosses it. Starosel is mainly known for its abundance of ancient Neolithic and Thracian sites. The village was in Antiquity an important and wealthy Thracian city in the 5th century BC, as evidenced by the excavations in the 20th century.

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/03/bulgaria-ancient-thrace-sites.html#ixzz1qK91IFRL

Look like coin collector in Kuala Terengganu (state in Malaysia), were digging their own ancient coin for this past few days. A news by the star newspaper reported that some ancient coins and artefact’s found in Terengganu’s Chinatown work site. Earth-works for the new ring road and sewage system in Terengganu Chinatown here have uncovered hundreds of ancient coins and other artefact’s. There is also concern that workers at the site and the public may have been quietly digging up these items to sell.


Site manager Omar Mahmod said many items might have been sold before he realised that his work site contained buried treasures when he uncovered a porcelain vase that he believed was from ancient China. He questioned his workers and discovered that many items had been found at the site. Many of these artefact’s were found when they started earth excavation in February last year, but the workers concealed their find from management. Realising that the items were being sold off on the quiet, he directed the workers to declare any artefact’s found from the site.

Since discovering the porcelain vase, Omar has dug out coins with early Jawi writing, Arabic script and ancient Chinese emblems, ancient Indian ornaments and Chinese jars, plates and vases.

An Indonesian worker from the site who requested anonymity said he surrendered most of the artefact’s to his superior but admitted he had sold some to collectors.

“Such coins are collectors’ items some of which I will take back to Surabaya,” he said.

State MCA chief Toh Chin Yaw said the items were priceless and part of the state’s history. He said the contractor had been asked to declare any future discovery of artefact’s. “We want to preserve valuable items extracted at the site for our future generations,” he said.

Toh said he had informed the relevant authorities to visit the site and claim any artefact’s found.

Sound to me that Department of Museum Malaysia a bit late on handling this matters. The treasure hunting had been going on for almost a year now and nobody stop the illegal digging. This is national treasure, they should act fast to stop people from doing the illegal treasure hunting. I can see that man in the picture is holding some pitis coins, Chinese Tin cash coin and some coin that look like a Spanish coin. This is the first time an ancient coins found in Malaysia reported by a news this year.

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/01/ancient-coin-found-in-malaysia.html#ixzz1qK9Dnpsi

I just come back from Penang yesterday to collect a bunch of coins from my runner. After meeting him, I walk along jalan Masjid Kapitan Keling and found a man selling a coin. Most of the coins he show are not interesting enough for me. When I about to walk away from him, he take something in his pocket and show me a bunch of old gold coins. One of them is a Kelantan Kijang Gold Kupang. He try to sell it to me for 500 ringgit. The cheap price simply to good to be true. Something that I learn from my coin collecting hunting trip.

I remember from Malaysia numismatic society auction in 2008, the Kelantan Kijang Gold Kupang start the price from 950 ringgit Malaysia. The price can go up to 2 thousand ringgit for a piece of Kelantan Kijang Gold Kupang. When meeting my runner, we talk about the gold coin and he advice me don’t buy something you don’t know anything about. He also alert me that some fake Straits Settlements coins especially the high price already come into market. One of the coin is in auction by Malaysia numismatic society without everyone realize that it is fake. This fake coins is using the same material, composition, weight, diameter and come without any flaw at all. Some of the coins that he mention are King Edward one dollar 1903B raised, King George V half dollar 1921 dot, King Edward VII 50 cents 1902-1903-1905, Queen Victoria 50 cents 1889-1883.


That guy also selling some Acheh old gold coins for 150 ringgit a piece. Aceh is located at the northern tip of Sumatra, strategically controlling the entrance to the Straits of Malacca. In 1511, the Portuguese seized the important strategic port of Malacca, pushing many Asian and Arabic traders to the developing port of Aceh. Sultan Ali Mughayat Shah became the first ruler of Aceh from 1514.

Different views were given regarding the origin of the Kijang gold coins. One is the view which associates the coins with Che Siti Wan Kembang, a female ruler in Kelantan. Her reign was rather obscure as one historian places her in the 14th century while another puts her in the 17th century. According to local folklore, some Arab traders presented a Kijang to the Queen. She became very fond of her pet and had it inscribed on the gold coins. Another version was linked to the influence of Saivite Hinduism. The connection was based on the fact that the earliest issue of Kijang coins resembled the Indian humped-back bull and the bull motif was depicted on the ancient Hindu coins which were circulated in the Northern Malay States.

Malay states started to use kupang when Acheh trader come here. The use of Kupang Gold Coin was spreading and widely used by the rich people at that time. The word Kupang maybe come from a place in Aceh; kupang. Between 1400 to 1780, a number of gold coins or Kupang were known to be minted for used in Patani and Kelantan. Unfortunately, little is known about the history of Kelantan coinage as these coins were not dated, except for the gold Kupang with the inscription “Al Julus Kelantan”, which were issued after 1780.

The Kelantan-Patani gold coins which were on display in the Malaysia Money Museum were only minted in one denomination, namely a Kupang, which contained approximately 9 grains of gold. There were three types of Kelantan gold coins: the Kijang coins, the Dinar Matahari or Sun coins, and coins with Arabic inscriptions on both sides. The Kijang coins derived their name from the motif of the Malayan barking deer or Kijang embossed as the obverse design. This motif is used as the logo of Bank Negara Malaysia.

Several types of tin pitis, which were cast in the form of “coin trees” were also issued. The tin coin trees were produced by the use of moulds adapted from those used by the Chinese to cast copper coins. The coins were broken off from their branches to be used as cash, and the unused metal of the tree was then re-smelted in the next casting. All issues of Kelantan local coinage were discontinued in 1909 when the Straits Settlements coinage was introduced.

Kelantan Kijang Gold Kupang; Malik Al Adi

 

Obverse: Hump Bull/Kijang deer facing left. Salivary flow in the mouth with tail rising. A crescent moon and sun above

 

Reverse : Malik Al Adil (The Just Ruler) in 3 rows and different style.

Source: Bank Negara Money Museum, malay-coins.tripod.com

 

What do you think? Is this a fake coin or is this the original Kelantan Kijang Gold Kupang? Do you have any Kelantan Kijang Gold Kupang in your collection. How much do you pay to get your precious possession?

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/08/kelantan-kijang-gold-kupang.html#ixzz1qK9ZU11L

I try to find any bit history and information about this coins but it is very hard to find valuable one. What most website is talking about Terengganu and Kelantan Pitis or Keping coin is that this coin is made following the Chinese Merchants copper cash that been used in Malay Peninsular in 8th century AD. Pitis or Keping, cast from tin is then produced during last two decade of the 18th century. I think thats why this Kelantan Pitis has a hole on its center.

 

Several types of tin pitis, which were cast in the form of “coin trees” were also issued. The tin coin trees were produced by the use of moulds adapted from those used by the Chinese to cast copper coins. The coins were broken off from their branches to be used as cash, and the unused metal of the tree was then re-smelted in the next casting. All issues of Kelantan local coinage were discontinued in 1909 when the Straits Settlements coinage was introduced.

Kelantan Pitis or Keping

It is probable that the name “Kelantan” on this coin is the name of the long forgotten ruler of the early Kelantan-Patani period and not a reference to the state of Kelantan.

 

Obverse : In Arabic “Khalifatul Muminin” (ruler of the faithful). Crude inscription.

Reverse : In Arabic “Al Julus Kelantan” (The accession year of Kelantan).

Edge : Plain

Weight : 3.70 grammes, 4.70 grammes

Diameter : 26 mm, 27 mm

Composition : Tin (round central hole)

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/01/kelantan-terengganu-pitis-or-keping.html#ixzz1qK9oG9jz

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This coin is made by VEIC, Struck by Royal mint, London. On the obverse bore the year mintage and coat of arm with inscription Auspicio Regis et senatus anglie which mean under the auspices of the king and the english parliment. On the reverse is a lily cups wreath with arabic inscription “pulau pinang” (island of Penang). My coin here is struck by Madras mint which is inferior then the former.

1810 : minted by Royal Mint, London

1825 & 1828 : minted by Madras Mint, India

 

East India House

 

East India company is English chartered company formed for trade with East and Southeast Asia and India, incorporated in 1600. It began as a monopolistic trading body, establishing early trading stations at Surat, Madras (now Chennai), Bombay (Mumbai), and Calcutta (Kolkata). Trade in spices was its original focus; this broadened to include cotton, silk, and other goods. In 1708 it merged with a rival and was renamed the United Co. of Merchants of England Trading to the East Indies. Becoming involved in politics, it acted as the chief agent of British imperialism in India in the 18th – 19th century, exercising substantial power over much of the subcontinent.

 

 

The company’s activities in China in the 19th century served as a catalyst for the expansion of British influence there; its financing of the tea trade with illegal opium exports led to the first Opium War (1839 – 42). From the late 18th century it gradually lost both commercial and political control; its autonomy diminished after two acts of Parliament (1773, 1774) established a regulatory board responsible to Parliament, though the act gave the company supreme authority in its domains. It ceased to exist as a legal entity in 1873.

 

source: Malaysia, Brunei & Singapore banknotes & coins book by K.N Boon, answer.com

 

You can try your luck by hunting for this item in penang and meet some of my friends. You can find them in Butterworth Roadwalk flea market.

 

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/01/coat-of-arms-series-east-india-company.html#ixzz1qK9zH8A9

Yesterday, The Hamas-run ministry of tourism and antiquities in Gaza announced the discovery of ancient artifacts near the Egyptian border town of Rafah. 1,300 ancient silver coins, both large and small found at the archaeological dig. Archaeologists had also uncovered a black basalt grinder, a coin with a cross etched on it, and the remains of walls and arches believed to have been built in 320 BC. They also discovered a “mysterious” underground compartment with a blocked entrance that appeared to be a tomb, Agha said.

 

 

Photo: ancient silver coins recently discovered near the Egyptian border town of Rafah

 

The Palestinian Authority has been carrying out archaeological excavations since the 1990s, but this was the first major find to be announced by the Hamas-run government. The archaeological dig, still under way, is close to where a vast network of smuggling tunnels provides a vital economic lifeline amid strict Israeli and Egyptian closures imposed after the takeover. The News released by Mohammed al-Agha, tourism and antiquities ministerof the Palestinian National Authority.

 

According to the Palestinian Authority’s Ministry of Tourism and Antiquity, in the West Bank and Gaza Strip there are 12,000 archaeological and cultural heritage sites, 60,000 traditional houses, 1,750 major sites of human settlement, and 500 sites which have been excavated to date, 60 of which are major sites. Gaza’s main highway, the Salah al-Din road, is one of the oldest in the world, and has been traversed by the chariots of the armies of the Pharaohs and Alexander the Great, the cavalry of the Crusaders, and Napoleon Bonaparte.

 

Having long been overlooked in archaeological research, the number of excavations in the Gaza Strip has multiplied since the establishment in 1995 of the Department of Antiquities in Gaza. Plans to build a national archaeological museum also promise to highlight the rich history of Gaza city, which has been described as, “one of the world’s oldest living cities.” Rapid urban development makes the need for archaeological research all the more urgent to protect the region’s archaeological heritage. Population pressure in the tiny Gaza Strip is intense, which means that numerous potential archaeological sites may have been built over and lost. According to specialists, there is much more under ground and under the sea than what has been discovered to date.

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/01/old-coin-found-in-world-oldest-living.html#ixzz1qKAClsDx

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What a lucky day for a guy who just started a hobby of metal detecting for a month. UK Dailymail reported that Nick Davies found this amazing haul of 10,000 Roman coins on his first ever treasure hunt. The stunning collection of coins, most of which were found inside the broken brown pot, was uncovered by Nick during a search of land in the Shrewsbury area – just a month after he took up the hobby of metal detecting. Experts say the coins have spent an estimated 1,700 years underground.

 

Photo by: UK Dailymail


The silver and bronze ‘nummi’ coins, dating from between 240AD and 320AD, were discovered in a farmer’s field near Shrewsbury, in Shropshire, last month. His amazing find is one of the largest collections of Roman coins ever discovered in Shropshire. And the haul could be put on display at Shrewsbury’s new £10million heritage centre, it was revealed today. It is also the biggest collection of Roman coins to be found in Britain this year. Nick, from Ford, Shropshire, said he never expected to find anything on his first treasure hunt – especially anything of any value.

He recalled the discovery and described it as ‘fantastically exciting’.

Nick said: “The top of the pot had been broken in the ground and a large number of the coins spread in the area. All of these were recovered during the excavation with the help of a metal detector.”

 

photo by: shropshirestar.com


“This added at least another 300 coins to the total – it’s fantastically exciting. I never expected to find such treasure on my first outing with the detector.”

The coins have now been sent to the British Museum for detailed examination, before a report is sent to the coroner.Experts are expected to spend several months cleaning and separating the coins, which have fused together. They will also give them further identification before sending them to the coroner. A treasure trove inquest is then expected to take place next year. Peter Reavill, finds liaison officer from the Portable Antiquities Scheme, records archaeological finds made by the public in England and Wales, He said the coins were probably payment to a farmer or community at the end of a harvest.

Speaking to the Shropshire Star, Mr Reavill said the coins appear to date from the period 320AD to 340AD, late in the reign of Constantine I.

Mr Reavill said: “There seems to be a minimum of 10,000 coins, the majority of which are corroded together in the pot.

“The coins are all bronze, and some of them have been silver washed. They are known as nummi and were common during the 4th century AD.

“The top of the pot had been broken in the ground and a large number of the coins spread in the area. All of these were recovered during the excavation with the help of a metal detector. This added at least another 300 coins to the total.

“It is likely that the hoard represents a person or communities wealth, possibly as a payment for a harvest. Why it was not collected by the owner is a mystery, but one that we can share and enjoy 1,700 years after the fact.”

However, Mr Reavill declined to put a figure on either the value of the coins or the pot until the findings of the inquest are known, but he described the discovery as a ‘large and important’ find.

Mr Reavill said the exact location of the find could not be revealed for security reasons.

Source: dailymail, Shropshire Star

Wish one day I am lucky enough to make such a big treasure find. A good thing for Mr. Nick Davies for sharing his find with everyone andnot being greedy. A finding of treasure like this will help we understand our history much better. Mr. Nick Davies can sale them in a black market but he choose to bring his treasure finding to relevant authority. He is an example to many treasure hunter out there.

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/09/treasure-hunting-10000-romans-ancient.html#ixzz1qKAS2Eu3

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Jagdish Khaitan, A men in Uttar Pradesh India is going to open a coin museum. This numismatist from Gorakhpur boasts of a coin collection with hundreds of coins from different eras in Indian history and from abroad. Khaitan’s collection covers a lot from the interesting numismatic history of India. His collection features coins from the time of Mughal emperors such as Akbar, Humayun, and Shah Jahan, and from the time of Sher Shah Suri, Mohammed Tuglaq, Alauddin Khilji of the Delhi Sultanate. He also has coins from around a 100 countries, big and small, from all over the world.



This is what I found about Mughal coinage history from RBI Monetary Museum website:

Technically, the Mughal period in India commenced in 1526 AD when Babur defeated Ibrahim Lodhi, the Sultan of Delhi and ended in 1857 AD when the British deposed and exiled Bahadur Shah Zafar, the last Mughal Emperor after the great uprising. The later emperors after Shah Alam II were little more than figureheads.

The most significant monetary contribution of the Mughals was to bring about uniformity and consolidation of the system of coinage throughout the Empire. The system lasted long after the Mughal Empire was effectively no more. The system of tri-metalism which came to characterise Mughal coinage was largely the creation, not of the Mughals but of Sher Shah Suri (1540 to 1545 AD), an Afghan, who ruled for a brief time in Delhi. Sher Shah issued a coin of silver which was termed the Rupiya. This weighed 178 grains and was the precursor of the modern rupee. It remained largely unchanged till the early 20th Century. Together with the silver Rupiya were issued gold coins called the Mohur weighing 169 grains and copper coins called Dam.

Where coin designs and minting techniques were concerned, Mughal Coinage reflected originality and innovative skills. Mughal coin designs came to maturity during the reign of the Grand Mughal, Akbar. Innovations like ornamentation of the background of the die with floral scroll work were introduced. Jehangir took a personal interest in his coinage. The surviving gigantic coins, are amongst the largest issued in the world. The Zodiacal signs, portraits and literary verses and the excellent calligraphy that came to characterise his coins took Mughal Coinage to new heights.

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Uttar Pradesh numismatist mulls over a coin museum
Daily India.com
From ANI

Gorakhpur (UP), July 31: Jagdish Khaitan, a numismatist from Gorakhpur boasts of a coin collection with hundreds of coins from different eras in Indian history and from abroad.

With a collection growing each day, he is going to open a coin museum. 7-year-old numismatist has been relentlessly collecting coins since 1956, when he went as a student to the Benaras Hindu University and was influenced by fellow students collecting stamps.

Khaitan’s collection covers a lot from the interesting numismatic history of India. His collection features coins from the time of Mughal emperors such as Akbar, Humayun, and Shah Jahan, and from the time of Sher Shah Suri, Mohammed Tuglaq, Alauddin Khilji of the Delhi Sultanate. He also has coins from around a 100 countries, big and small, from all over the world.

“I have coins belonging to the ancient, medieval and modern times. I also have coins from the Delhi Sultanate, Mughal period, various states of India, and various countries of the world. I have coins from almost 100 countries,” he said.

Bought, bartered, from old shops, coin exchangers, Khaitan has gone through various odds to make his unique collection.

Sometimes inviting ridicule from his family for spending too much time with his coins, or just losing himself in search of a coin, Khaitan takes it all in his stride. By Pawan Kumar(ANI)

 

Source: DailyIndia.com, RBI Monetary Museum
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I wish I have coins belong to the ancient and medieval times like Khaitan. Some friend offer me his ancient coin collection long time ago but I really don’t know how to check their value and authenticity. I also wish Kaitan Coin Museum dreams will be fulfill one day. Its not that hard to open a coin museum, I guess. The hard part is to make sure your coins are not missing or stolen by your visitor. One of my numismatist friend is going to India this month. Any of you have been going to India? Every romantic couples would like to visit Taj Mahal once, right?

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/08/coin-museum-by-india-uttar-pradesh.html#ixzz1qKAone4g

The most interesting street to explore by foot in Penang is Chulia Street or Lebuh Chulia (Malabar street). Chulia street get its name because of majority of traders come from Tanjore and to a lesser extent from Ramnad, both districts in Tamil Nadu. You can find multi-cultural character, antique building, budget hotel, antique shop and many money changer shop along Chulia street. You just need to start your walk from Penang Road. If you can find Pasar Chowrasta or Penang Road Mydin, just go straight until you see Oriental Hotel. You can see the signboard of Chulia Street from there. The walk will be about one kilometer long but it will be an exciting one. If you love antique and taking pictures.

 

You can start searching for your coin, banknote or antique stuff from that signboard post. On your right (since you’re heading to Chulia street), you can see one money changer and one antique shop. Just be sure to do your walk after 12pm since many money changer, coin shop or antique shop aren’t open before that time. The best day to do the walk is on working days, Monday to Thursday. Some Money Changer shop will be closed for a while on Friday afternoon. Most antique shop, coin shop and money changer will be closed on Sunday. It is best if you try to avoid walking on Friday until Sunday. If you want your hunting trip to be a rewarding one.

 

You can found almost ten money changer like this. Look for coin or banknote on display at their counter. If you want a best cheap price, don’t forget try to be their first customer. Start your walk as early as possible. As with my experience doing a coin hunting trip here, select your banknote or coin first before you want to bargain for their price. They love it if you want to buy many item in the early morning. You still can buy the item that you feel is cheap with good bargain and leaving the expensive coin or banknote. If you’re looking for world currency, world coins, world paper money, Straits Settlements coins or banknotes, Malaysia coin or banknotes, Malaysia commemorative coin (not proof coin), silver coins; this is the best place to hunt for them cheap.

The walk will bring you to Masjid Kapitan Keling Road or Jalan Masjid Kapitan Keling. Kapitan Keling Mosque built in the 19th century by the India Muslim trader coming to Penang. The term ‘keling’ derived from the ancient Hindu kingdom on the Coromandel coast of South India. It was generally used to denote all those who came from there. As the Indians found it difficult to pronounce certain English words, the title “Captain” was somehow transformed into “Kapitan”. From there, the Kapitan Kelings (or Captains of the Kelings) came about. Beside the famous “nasi beratur” or “nasi ganja”, you can also found Money Changer shop along that road.

 

Happy hunting. Don’t forget to subscribe to my feed for more coin hunting trip tips

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/07/coin-hunting-trip-chulia-street-masjid.html#ixzz1qKBAZlKY

 

 

 

The establishment of the Straits Settlements followed the Anglo-Dutch Treaty of 1824 between the United Kingdom and the Netherlands, by which the Malay archipelago was divided into a British zone in the north and a Dutch zone in the south. This resulted the exchange of the British settlement of Bencoolen (on Sumatra) for the Dutch colony of Malacca and undisputed control of Singapore. Its capital was moved from Penang to Singapore in 1832.

 

Straits Settlements situated on the Malay Peninsula of Asia, was formed in 1826 by combining the territories of Singapore, Penang and Malacca. The colony was administered by the East India Company until its abolition in 1858. Straits Settlements was a part of British India from 1858 to 1867 at which time it became a Crown Colony.

 

The Straits Settlements coinage gradually became acceptable legal tender in the neighboring Federated as well as the Unfederated Malay States. The Straits Settlements were dissolved in 1946, while the coinage continued to circulate until demonetized at the end of 1952.

 

RULER

British

MINT MARKS

H – Heaton, Birmingham

W – Soho Mint

B – Bombay

MONETARY SYSTEM

100 Cents = 1 Dollar

 

COIN

 

 

 

The first coins issued for the Straits Settlements in 1845 were ¼, ½ and 1 cent denominations in copper. They were issued by the East India Company and did not bear any indication of where they were to be used. A second issue of the same denominations was produced in 1862 by the government of British India. These bore the inscription “India – Straits”.

 

 

In 1871, silver coins were issued in the name of the Straits Settlements for 5, 10 and 20 cents, followed by copper ¼, ½ and 1 cent the next year and silver 50 cents in 1886. Silver dollars were first minted in 1903.

 

 

A 3 page special issue of the Straits Settlements Government Gazette published in Singapore on 24 Aug. 1904, contained the following proclamation by then Governor, Sir John Anderson. From 31 Aug. 1904, British, Mexican and Hong Kong Dollars would cease to be legal tender and would be replaced by the newly introduced Straits Settlements Dollar.

 

The purpose of this action was to create a separate exchange value for the new Straits Dollar as compared with the other silver dollars that were circulating in the region, notably the British trade dollar. The idea was that when the exchange value had diverged significantly from that of the other silver dollars, then the autorities would peg it to sterling at that value, hence putting the Straits Settlements unto the gold exchange standard. This pegging occurred when the Straits Dollar reached the value of two shillings and four pence (2s 4d) against sterling.

 

 

Within a few years, the value of silver rose rapidly such as to make the silver value of the Straits dollar higher than its gold exchange value. In order to prevent these dollars from being melted down, a new smaller dollar was issued in 1907 with a reduced silver content. A parallel story occurred in the Philippines at the same time. The last ¼ cent coins were issued in 1916. Dollars were last struck for circulation in 1920, with 50 cents production ending in 1921. The remaining coins continued in production until 1935.

 

BANKNOTE


Queen Victoria (1837 – 1901)

The Government of Straits Settlements, was first authorised to issue currency notes by Ordinance VIII of 1897, which came into operation on 31 August 1898. These notes, although dated 1 September 1898, were not issued to the public until 1 May 1899. Both the Chartered Bank and Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank continued to issue banknotes, which circulated side by side with the official currency. All notes were freely exchangeable with the Mexican dollar or the various other silver coins that were legal tender in the Colony.

 

 

King Edward VII (1901 – 1910)

King Edward ascended the throne in January 1901. In the previous issue the 5-dollar note had been of almost the same size and design as the 10-dollar. To make recognition more simple it was reduced in size. The series dated 1 February 1901 were printed by Thomas de la Rue & Co. Ltd. of London. In 1903, a dollar-sized coin in silver was minted specially for the Straits Settlements, and this became the standard unit of value. All other silver dollars at that time circulation were demonetized by 1904. A step rise in the price of silver, however, soon forced the government to call int the first issue of this Straits dollar and to replace it with a coin of lower silver content.

 

 

 

 

King George V (1910 – 1936)

During this reign the range of currency notes was extended up to one thousand dollars for the convenience of inter-bank clearing transactions. In 1915, it was decided to make a complete change in the design of the 50, 100 and 1000 dollar notes. These denominations were first issued to the public in February 1920, October 1919 and May 1917 respectively. They were printed by Thomas de la Rue. A 10,000 note was first issued in October 1922. This was not available to the public, but was used exclusively in inter-bank transfers.

 

Source: wikipedia, Krause Publication

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/02/strait-settlement-story.html#ixzz1qKBS2Lpc

Yesterday A reader of this blog asking me about a Malaya 1950 coin and how much their price would be. It is hard to determine the price of the coin without looking at the actual coin itself. You need to see the condition and grading the coin. A coin with high grade (Uncirculated) is a very hard to find for an old coin like this. Normally coin in possesion is in Very fine condition and not worth so much. Here is the price from Standard catalog for Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore 18th edition Book by Steven Tan for that reader reference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source: Standard catalog for Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore 18th edition Book by Steven Tan

 

Related Post:

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/02/malaya-coin-price.html#ixzz1qKBhbuG0

Have you done any treasure hunting before? Most people do treasure hunting for gold artifact. Do you know that you can do a treasure hunting using Google Maps? Google Maps have given the ability to virtually anyone to have eyes across the globe and conduct research into specific points of interest before launching a treasure hunting expedition. This has made it infinitely easier for treasure hunters to do extensive research previously impossible to do without physically going to the specific point of interest, and saved the real life treasure hunters much time and money, even providing for a new level of safety to be incorporated into treasure hunting expeditions.

 

I read many story about people doing their treasure hunting around this world. Yesterday, I found a story about Klaus Keppler who founds a kilograms of different kind of silver coins in a 10th century wreck ship, the Forbes. The British vessel sailed the seas under a commission from the British king, a kind of pirate with a royal permit. It ran aground on a reef off Belitung island, between Borneo and Sumatra, en route to India on Sept 9, 1806.

 

 

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Treasure hunter Klaus Keppler has uncovered cannons and priceless china from ship wrecks in the ocean
TheSundaily.com
by Christiane Oelrich
Updated: 01:21PM Wed, 29 Jul 2009

 

In the lore surrounding hidden treasures, the gods often see fit to subject the treasure hunter to a long quest before he finds the objects of his desire. Treasure hunter Klaus Keppler knows that only too well. For years, the owner of a salvage company has been looking for the wrecks of ships that had been carrying gold, silver or china. Now, after a long dry spell, he got lucky. Twice.

An old cannon

 

Keppler showing off a find

 

Salvage works being carried out aboard a wreck.


Keppler – who has recovered a 10th-century wreck and the Forbes, a British vessel that ran aground in 1806, off Indonesia – contentedly surveys his treasures in a Jakarta port storehouse, holding up a huge lump of silver coins.

“Hurry up, this thing is incredibly heavy,” the 70-year-old German urges a photographer but with a big smile on his face.

The divers of his salvage ship, the Maruta Jaya, have recovered many kilograms of silver coins from the Forbes as well as cannon, gold jewellery, crystal, silverware and 400 bottles of wine.

“Those gentlemen on board knew how to live well,” he says.The many different coins will sell well, he believes, spinning a large one between his fingers: “One coin can be worth between US$50 dollars and several thousand.”

This is even more so the case if the history of the artefact is known. Keppler hired a young man to scour archives around the world for information about the Forbes.

The vessel sailed the seas under a commission from the British king, a kind of pirate with a royal permit. It ran aground on a reef off Belitung island, between Borneo and Sumatra, en route to India on Sept 9, 1806.

Captain Frazer Sinclair and his crew survived. The Mampango reef was only charted five years later.

Upstairs in Keppler’s storehouse, four archaeology students measure, photograph and describe every recovered coin and enter the results in a databank.

“Everything gets documented,” Keppler says. Officials from various Indonesian ministries who must accompany every search trip make sure that no treasures are squirreled away.

The Indonesian state receives 50% of all revenues derived from the treasure hunts in its territory. While it is rumoured among treasure hunters that some officials are not adverse to cutting individual deals, the searchers also eye each other with mistrust.

“Eighty per cent are scoundrels and mountebanks,” Keppler says.

Apart from the revenue, Indonesia’s interest is limited, as is obvious with the second wreck Keppler found in a depth of 50 metres off Java island, says Horst Liebner, an expert on Malay culture and history.

“The Karawang wreck is from the10th century,” Liebner says. “In Germany, such a find would be a sensation, but in Indonesia, not a single archaeologist stopped by to have a look.


Liebner dated the wreck with the help of Chinese lead coins from the Ming dynasty, which fell in 947. Divers also recovered vases, ewers and plates. “It’s a time capsule,” he enthuses.

So far, the treasure hunters have not become rich. The flotilla of salvage ships, equipment, divers and storage all needed to be financed in advance, long before any promising finds were on the horizon. Therefore, investors attracted by a sense of adventure are welcome.

But occasionally there is a wreck that fulfills the treasure hunter’s hopes. “We checked out about 70 wrecks here, but only five of them are probably worth it,” Keppler says.

The money only starts coming in when a buyer is found. Keppler’s team is in negotiations with Chinese museums over the Karawang treasure, which he hopes will bring in €1.4 million (RM7 million dollars) with salvage costs amounting to €600,000. The Forbes might prove more profitable, netting €5 million to 10 million, with €400,000 in salvage costs.

“There are more than 30 million coin collectors worldwide,” says Keppler. But in the end, he is in it for the search – his eyes already set on future wrecks to be discovered.

 

Source: TheSundaily.com

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I always wish one day I can make my treasure find using Google Maps. Just look at the open sea on the maps and wish that I can find that treasure. I want to know how it felt recovering kilograms of silver coins, cannon, gold jewellery, crystal, silverware , chinaware and other artifact treasure. Some says you need at least half a million Euro dollar to start a treasure expedition. Sometimes you don’t gain anything from that expedition. Almost the same thing with my coin hunting trip. Sometimes I come back from my coin hunting trip empty handed. Do you always browsing the world with Google Maps? Don’t forget to look at the open sea, who know one days this kind of treasure will be yours.

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/07/treasure-hunting-klaus-keppler.html#ixzz1qKC50xaV

One of the oldest coin found in Britain has been discovered after sitting on a shelf for a decade. The silver denarius Roman Republic coin dating from 211BC was found during an excavation in 2000 at Hallaton, Leics. But the coin sat in storage at a Leicester museum with 5000 other coins, a helmet and decorated bowl found at the dig. The Museum only realized about the coin when experts doing their catalogue for the Hallaton coin. The coins have been catalogued by Ian Leins, curator of Iron Age and Roman coins at the British Museum.

The coin, which would have been the equivalent of a day’s pay for a legionary, predates Britain’s previous oldest Roman coin by four years. Experts can tell the Hallaton coin is older as it does not feature a crescent shaped imprint visible on the Berkshire coin. It said the coin, which has the Goddess Roma on one side. The other side depicts mythical twins Castor and Pollux sat on galloping horses. The other coin found in Berkshire has a crescent between the heads, it is believed that the types with the issue marks are slightly later. The Hallaton coin is an early, anonymous type coin, which lacks a moneyer’s name and any issuer’s marks.Some archaeologists have however speculated that such Roman Republican coins found their way into Britain before the Roman conquest in 43 AD and were evidence of exchange through trade or diplomacy.

 

Helen Sharp, Hallaton Treasure project manager, said it was a big shock to discover they had such a significant find right under their noses.

She said: “The coin had been kept in storage for ten years in a low humidity room, just sitting there on a shelf.

“It was such a big surprise when we found out it is the oldest Roman coin in the country – it was dug up a decade ago. It is such a huge task to log and date coins, the hoard was so large. The coin was finally dated in 2009, but we didn’t realise it was Britain’s oldest until this week. It is really exciting that treasure discovered ten years ago can still keep surprising us.”

The coin is now set to be a star attraction of the collection being displayed at Harborough Museum, in Market Harborough, Leicestershire. alongside other coins that were excavated at a late Iron Age shrine of the Corieltavi tribe dating to the first century AD.

 

Photo by BBC: Malcolm Langford, Henry and Anni Byard.

 

Britain’s previous oldest coin was unearthed in Berkshire last year on the site of the UK’s oldest road the Roman-built Ridgeway, near Avebury. The coin found by retired electrician Malcolm Langford, who has been metal detecting for seven years. The age of the coin discovered when he took it, along with another Iron Age silver coin of Eppillus to the West Berkshire and Oxfordshire Finds Liaison Officer, Anni Byard. Anni immediately confirmed the Iron Age coin was only one of 11 that have been recorded in the UK and suspected the Roman coin, a Republican silver denarius, was quite rare

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/01/oldest-coin-found-in-britain.html#ixzz1qKCeKruh

Yesterday, the Japan times announced that a Japanese-Turkish research team has discovered a British-minted gold coin and a Japanese silver coin from a Turkish warship that sank 120 years ago off Kushimoto, Wakayama Prefecture. The Project that had been started since 4 January 2007 is a salvaging project with contributions from the Institute of Nautical Archaeology (INA) in Bodrum, Yapı Kredi Retirement Partnership and the Turkish Foundation of Nautical Archaeology. One of their objective was to find the wreckage of Ertuğrul and completely float her to the surface. It is intended to exhibit her in the museum next to the Ertuğrul Monument in Kushimoto. U.S. and Japanese nautical archaeologists and historians join the excavation team.

Kyodo Photo: A £1 British coin and ¥1 silver coin


“Still there should be lots of gold coins” inside the ship Ertugrul, said Tufan Turanli, who heads the underwater archaeological team. The gold coin, dated 1856, measures 2.2 cm in diameter and weighs 8 grams. Both coins was retrieved at a depth of 12 meters. The team, which launched a three-year survey in 2008, has already discovered about 5,800 items from the wreck.

 

on 28 January 2008, the same team leads by Tufan Turanlı, director of INA, reached on the ammunition store section of the wreck in a dive within the second phase of the underwater excavation project. Three cannon balls, each 40 kg (88 lb), of the ship’s Krupp naval guns, tens of bullets and pieces of naval mines were recovered and safely brought to the Port of Kushimoto, where explosive experts of local police, Japanese Army and Navy examined them. The artifacts were later taken to Ertuğrul Research Institute for conservation. Tufanlı recalled that two Winchester rifles recovered earlier are on exhibition in the museum.

 

Photo by www.sof.or.jp: The Ertuğrul at anchor in the Bosporus Straits

 

Ertuğrul, launched in 1863, was a sailing frigate of the Ottoman Navy. While returning from a goodwill voyage from Japan in 1890, she encountered a typhoon off the coast of Wakayama Prefecture, subsequently drifted into a reef and sank. The maritime accident resulted in the loss of 533 sailors, including Admiral Ali Osman Pasha. Only sixty-nine sailors and officers survived and returned home later aboard two Japanese corvettes. In February 1891, a cemetery was established for the 150 sailors recovered dead at the calamity, and a memorial next to it was built near the lighthouse in the town of Kushimoto, Wakayama. In 1974, a “Turkish Museum” was established, in which a scale model of the ship, photographs and statues of the sailors are on exhibition. The event is being commemorated every five years on the day of the tragic accident in Kushimoto with the participation of high-level officials from Turkey and Japan.

Discovered in 6 January 2007 by two metal detectorists David Whelan, 60, and his 35-year-old son Andrew through a farmer’s field near Harrogate, in northern England, who reported it to their local finds officer, the hoard has since been valued at more than £1million by the Independent Treasure Valuation Committee. The most important Viking treasure to be discovered in 150 years has been jointly acquired by York Museums Trust and the British Museum. It will now go on joint display at the two venues.

The Vale of York hoard, unearthed by a father and son team of treasure hunters in a field and dated at more than 1,000 years old, includes many precious metal objects including 617 coins, a gilt silver vessel, a rare gold armring, ingots and chopped-up fragments known as hack silver. The objects, which the Yorkshire Museum will share with the British Museum , are said to have been amassed from Afghanistan, Ireland, Russia and Scandinavia, underlining the global reach of seafarers during the medieval period. The hoard was probably buried by a wealthy Viking leader during the unrest that followed the conquest of the Viking kingdom of Northumbria in AD 927 by the Anglo-Saxon king Athelstan (924-39). It is being regarded as the most significant find of its kind in since 1840.

 

For David Whelan and his son Andrew, the ’metal detectorists’ who unearthed the find, it has proved a treasure hunters’ dream come true. They will share its valuation — £1,082,000 — with the landowner. They recalled that their expedition in fields around Harrogate in January 2007, had started badly when they were turned away from two farms. They were left with a site they believed to be unpromising because all they had previously turned up there were buttons. Almost immediately they unearthed the hoard.

 

Andrew said: “My father got a strong signal and a cup tumbled out after a couple of scoops of earth. There was a coin sat on the top of this bundle. We knew then it was something big and we were shaking with excitement as we lifted it out”.

 

The pair have won the praise of conservationists for swiftly realising the value of their find and leaving it virtually untouched for experts to carefully unwrap. They declared their treasure to their local finds liaison officer in Leeds.


Much of the hoard, which contains 67 objects, was preserved inside the gilt silver vessel, made around the middle of the 9th century, close to where the present-day Franco-German border runs. It was probably intended for use in church services and was believed to have been looted by Vikings from a monastery. The artefacts were extraordinarily well-preserved because they had kept in a lead container. The hoard also contains coins relating to Islam and the pre-Christian religion of the Vikings.


Andrew said: “Being keen metal detectorists we always dreamt of finding a hoard but to find one from such a fantastic period of history is just unbelievable.

“The contents of the hoard we found went far beyond our wildest dreams and hopefully people will love seeing the objects on display in York and London for many, many years to come.”

The York Museums Trust in York and the British Museum acquired he find with the assistance of the National Lottery Fund. It will go on display in York on September 17 before moving to London. One of the coins, which bears the Latin inscription, Rex Tiotius Britanniae, dating to 927, is the earliest indication of Britain being under one ruler, at a time when the country was split between Viking and Anglo-Saxon control.

Lee Clark of the York Museums Trust, which will share ownership of the hoard with the British Museum, said: “The size and quality of the material in the hoard is remarkable, making it the most important find of its type in Britain for over 150 years.

“It is the largest and most important Viking hoard from Britain since the hoard found at Cuerdale in Lancashire in 1840.” Jonathan Williams, Keeper of Prehistory and Europe at the British Museum, said: “This find is of global importance as well as having huge significance for the history of England and Yorkshire.”

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/08/1million-viking-treasure-hoard-goes-on.html#ixzz1qKD9fDEP

Yesterday, I am looking for any news regarding US Mint suspension on sales of silver coins and bullion coins. The U.S. Mint has “temporarily” suspended sales of almost all of its gold uncirculated and proof coins, along with nearly all of silver uncirculated coins because of the limited availability of blanks. Unprecedented demand and a shortage of blanks becoming a reason for the chronic shortage of gold and silver coins authorized by the U.S. Mint. Nowadays, look like everyone is looking for silver and gold as an investment. Some of my coin friends already e-mail and phone me asking if I have any silver coins stock for sale. While searching for that story, I found a news about a rare Roman coins that is worth to read.

 

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Rare Roman Coins Acquired for British Museum and Derby with Art Fund Help
Artdaily.org
Saturday, July 25, 2009

LONDON.- Two very rare gold coins of the little known Roman emperor Carausius (AD 286-93), found in the North Midlands in 2007, have been acquired by the British Museum and Derby Museum and Art Gallery. Both feature an image of the emperor Carausius, who lead a breakaway ‘mini-empire’ of Britain and Gaul in the late third century.

 

The first coin is a unique piece struck in London which has been acquired by the British Museum thanks to the generosity of funders including £43,500 from independent charity The Art Fund, the British Museum Friends and the Bottoms Bequest. The second coin was struck early in Carausius’ reign at Rouen and has been acquired by Derby Museum and Art Gallery, once again with grants from The Art Fund (£30,000) as well as the Victoria and Albert Fund, the Headley Trust, the Friends of Derby Museum and Art Gallery and Enlightenment – Collecting Cultures. The British Museum coin is on display in the Roman Britain gallery (Room 49, Case 14); the Derby coin will go on display in the near future.

The coins were found in spoil created by construction work by Derrick Fretwell. They were reported to the Portable Antiquities Scheme and declared Treasure in 2008. Gold coins of Carausius are extremely rare, until now only twenty-three have been found. The last example found was in 1975 in Hampshire and it is quite possible that we will have to wait for over thirty years before another one sees the light of day.

Carausius was a Menapian (from modern Belgium). In the AD 280s he was a leading general in the Roman army, possibly with authority over the Roman Fleet (“Classis Britannica”) that patrolled the English Channel and North Sea. The fleet was commanded from Boulogne. One of its major functions was to defend Britain and Gaul (France) from Saxon raiders; it also probably escorted barges that took British grain to the Roman army on the Rhine. Carausius fell foul of the Roman emperors Diocletian and Maximian, supposedly because he allowed the Saxons to raid and only intercepted them afterwards, keeping the stolen loot for himself! Rather than hand himself over, Carausius declared himself emperor of Northern Gaul and Britain and set up his own mini-empire.

The earlier of the two coins comes from Carausius’ mint at Rouen. Carausius only managed to maintain control of Northern Gaul for a few years and coins from Rouen are very rare. This is only the tenth gold coin recorded for the mint. It shows the emperor shaking hands with Concordia with the inscription “in harmony with the army”. This coin was probably struck to pay Carausius’ followers a ‘bounty’ on his accession, a practise carried out by all emperors. The second coin comes from the mint of London which struck many coins throughout Carausius’ reign, though this is a unique type. It shows Carausius wearing a helmet decorated with an animal design with an inscription that praises the emperor’s courage (virtus). The reverse trumpets ‘Imperial Peace’, something that Carausius tried to achieve by gaining the approval of the central emperors on the Continent – he even struck coins in the names of Diocletian and Maximianus to curry favour with them. Carausius successfully defended Britain against the central empire; however, he did not survive a coup d’état by his chancellor Allectus, who was to rule Britain from 293 to 296. The Roman emperor Constantius I finally retook Britain in 296, killing Allectus and bringing an end to Carausius’ breakaway realm.

We cannot be sure why these coins were buried, but whatever the reason the finder failed to recover them. A Roman soldier might expect to earn twelve gold coins a year before deductions were made for his expenses. The wheat he needed to make bread for a year would have cost almost 2 gold coins. For one gold coin, someone could have bought almost 100 bottles of wine or about 50 litres of olive oil. However, ten gold coins would have been needed to buy a pound of white silk.


Source: artdaily.org

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While I am in Penang a few years back, I heard how people found buried treasure in old building and houses. Most of the owner of this treasure is Chinese who afraid that their belonging confiscated by Japanese during world war 2. Maybe that is the reason why buying coins and banknotes in Penang is far more cheaper then other places in Malaysia. Do any of you knew any such story happen in your place? Please share them in here.

I welcome everyone to comment on my post. Just make sure your comment is related to my post, more then 3 words long and do not spam me with your link. I don’t mind any language used but English is the main language in my blog.

I found a news a few month ago about Archbishop’s treasure found in river. The treasure found by two diver, brothers Gary and Trevor Bankhead, in the River Wear in Durham. A haul of 32 artefacts, including gifts from Pope Paul VI and a commemorative medallion presented to the bishop for the Queen’s coronation in 1952. They had been in the possession of Michael Ramsey, the 100th Archbishop of Canterbury, who spent part of his retirement in the northern city where he served as bishop.


The underwater survey commenced in April 2007 and took two and half years to complete. The objects, some solid gold, have been discovered by amateur divers Trevor Bankhead, 40, and his brother Gary, 44, a fire service watch officer, over the past two and a half years. They conducted 300 dives and believe there are no objects left on the river bed after their last find. It is their belief belief the items could have been put into the water deliberately as a “gift” to the city by Lord Ramsey. The dives were carried out under licence from Durham Cathedral which owns both banks of the stretch of river.

 

It is not known how Mr Ramsey’s belongings came to be in the river, but there is no record of his former home, on South Bailey, being burgled. One theory is that he may have cast the items into the water himself at various times, having a reputation for eccentricity before his death 21 years ago at the age of 83. Another suggestion is that they may have been stolen before being discarded by thieves for some reason as they crossed Prebends Bridge. The former Bishop of Durham Michael Ramsey lived in the city after retiring as Archbishop in 1974. He died in 1988.

 

Their first find was an ornate silver trowel presented to the Archbishop for laying the foundation stone of an Indian church in 1961. The brothers have since retrieved over 30 other items linked to Ramsey, along with hundreds of medieval and Saxon artefacts. Among them are gold, silver and bronze medals struck to commemorate the second Vatican council, which must have been presented to Ramsey, who was the most senior cleric in the Church of England from 1961 to 1974, when he met Pope Paul VI at the Vatican in 1966. It was during the same visit the Pope gave Ramsey his episcopal ring which the Archbishop wore until the day he died and is now kept at Lambeth Palace. Other items discovered include a solid silver coin from the Greek Orthodox Church and a solid gold coin, likely to have been presented when Ramsey met Nikkyo Niwano, president of the Japanese Buddhist movement, in 1973.

 

Photo by Telegraph.co.uk: Micheal Ramsey


What a great treasure find by this brothers. Some will eventually go on display at Durham’s 11th Century cathedral. Even before the discovery of the items, the cathedral was planning an exhibition relating to Ramsey’s life in 2010, a new stained glass window will also be dedicated to him.


Source: BBC News, Telegraph.co.uk and wikipedia.  

 

Ancient coin thrown into sea

A group of sailor will be throwing ancient China coin into sea. A news reported by China newspaper Xianhua that Chinese clipper sailor which participated in the next two legs of the Clipper Round the World Yacht Race, are going to scatter ancient coins of 1405, which Zheng He brought to many countries in Ming dynasty, into sea. The Clipper yachts, which arrived in Qingdao from February 20 to February 23, will leave for California on March 2. The Clipper Round the World Yacht Race, held every two years, is the largest amateur yacht race in the world. This is the third time that the Clipper race came to Qingdao, host city of the Beijing Olympics sailing events.

Photo by eBay Singapore seller: markzz22: Yong Le Tong Bao ancient coin

 

“We are going to scatter about 70 coins of Ming Dynasty, called Yong Le Tong Bao, pasted with one yuan coins released in 2009, into the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean in the next two legs of the Clipper race.” said Zhang Feng, a civil servant of Qingdao city, who will participate in the 6th leg of the Clipper race from Qingdao to California, then to Jamaica.

Another Chinese Clipper sailor, Zhang Yanzhi, will do the same thing at the 7th leg from Jamaica to New York, then to Hull Humber of Britain.

“The reason that we will scatter the ancient coins into sea, which Zheng He had brought to many countries, is that we want to tell the world that China is back to adventure at seas.” Zhang Feng said.

 

Photo by Wikipedia: Zheng He monument


Zheng He, a famous voyager in Ming Dynasty, led a Chinese fleet to Southeast Asia, South Asia and East Africa, collectively referred to as the travels of the Western Ocean, from 1405 to 1433. When the Chinese settlers under admiral Zheng He’s (also known as Cheng Ho) travel to Melaka, he also brought with them their money – silver and gold ingots and tens of thousands of square holed copper cash, and these latter began to percolate out of the Chinese settlements and into the land of the Malays.


Anyone dare to dive and collect all the ancient coin thrown into sea?

Source: China People’s Daily online, Wikipedia

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/03/ancient-coin-thrown-into-sea.html#ixzz1qKEDDk5u

In 1405 Sultan of Mallaca, Parameshwara sent a mission to the Ming emperor of the Yung Lo period in China, who duly acknowledged him as the true ruler of Malacca and placed him formally under Chinese protection. Malacca took over from the crumbling Majopahit state as the dominant power of the southern region of southeast Asia. Trade flourished, however, between Malacca and China, and the business led to the establishment of Chinese trading depots in Malaccan territory. The traders brought their families, their retainers, their workers, and their slaves, and in no time (several decades) there was a large population of Chinese.


The Chinese settlers under admiral Zheng He’s (1405-1433; also known as Cheng Ho) also brought with them their money – silver and gold ingots and tens of thousands of square holed copper cash, and these latter began to percolate out of the Chinese settlements and into the land of the Malays. As the 15th century progressed the expansive Ming dynasty reached a high point and began to stabilize, and then contract. Overseas trade diminished, and contact with the overseas Chinese trading communities stop as well.

 

Chinese cash are usually made of copper, but there’s not much of the red metal in Malacca.There was an acute shortage of Chinese copper cash coin during that time. The local Chinese making tin cash coin as an alternative to china copper coin. So the copies were made of locally abundant tin. And copies is exactly what they are; the producers used year titles of the Northern Sung emperors three centuries back. This usage served a dual utility: for the originals of these coins, though 300 years old, were still the most common items in the East Asian money mix, and besides, it would be some what impolitic to copy the coins of the current dynasty.


It is also noted that none of the Mallaca tin cash coin can be found in China. They can only be found in Mallaca because of that time, mercant trader only bring back goods that they can sale in their country such as spices, nutmeg, elephant tusks, rhinoceros horn, medical product and exotic animals. If they bring back Mallaca tin cash coin to China, the coins would probably be treated as frogeries because they were not made of copper.


Here are some of the Chinese Tin Cash Coin used during that time:

 

Double Cash-Obverse

Obverse: Zheng He Yuan Bao.
Reverse: Fu Lai within an oblong counterstamp.
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: 31.5 mm.
Weight: 10.3 grammes.
Composition: Tin (78%) Lead (22%)
Mint: Malacca mint.

 

Double Cash-Obverse

Obverse: Yuan Feng Tong Bao.
Reverse: Chai within a square counterstamp.
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: 29 mm.
Weight: 8.2 grammes.
Composition: Tin (78%) Lead (22%)
Mint: Malacca mint.


Double Cash-Obverse

Obverse: Xi Ning Yuan Bao.
Reverse: Chai within a round counterstamp.
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: 30 mm.
Weight: 8.1 grammes.
Composition: Tin (78%) Lead (22%)
Mint: Malacca mint.
Condition: Scarce

 

Single Cash-Obverse

Obverse: Yuan Feng Tong Bao.
Reverse: Blank.
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: 22.5 mm.
Weight: 3 grammes.
Composition: Tin (76%) Lead (24%)
Mint: Malacca mint.

All the one cash coin are unifaced and they are divided into square and round holes and their weight are between 1.5 grammes-the lightest and 5.3 grammes-the heaviest. The double cash coins have square and round holes but they are divided into one counterstamp and two counterstamp on the reverse. The weight of the double cash coins are between 5.8 grammes-the lightest and 10.9 grammes-the heaviest. Normally the square hole type of tin cash coins has the counterstamp of the chinese character (Cai) and the round hole type of tin cash coin has the counterstamp of two chinese character (Fu Lai). It is believed that both the “Cai” and “Fu Lai” are the company trade names that produced the square and round holes tin coins.


Photo by: skydrivelive.com
Data source: Mallaca collection of coinage book, anythinganywhere

This Blog

This Blog

 

 

 

 

The Malacca Sultanate was from 1400-1511. There were eight sultans before the Portuguese came in 1511. During the 111 years of Malacca Sultanete, the merchants who traded in this region always used a common currency for their barter trade; Gold dust, silver bars, tin ingots and blocks money. Merchant from Ming Dynasty bring their own currency, chinese copper cash coin were used in the surrounding areas like Sumatra, Indonesia and Nusantara. these currency was accepted for barter trading by everyone in the region.

 

Chronology of Malacca Sultanate :

Parameswara ( Iskandar Shah) 1400 – 1414
Megat Iskandar Shah 1414 – 1424
Seri Maharajah Muhammad Shah 1424 – 1444
Seri Parameswara Dewa Shah (Raja Ibrahim) 1444 – 1445
Sultan Muzaffar Shah (Raja Kassim) 1445 – 1456
Sultan Mansur Shah (Raja Abdullah) 1456 – 1477
Sultan Alauddin Riayat Shah 1477 – 1488
Sultan Ahmad bin Mahmud Shah 1488 – 1511

Early sultanate coinage:

Some book, suggest that pitis coinage issued during the reign of Sultan Muzaffar should be the Malacca early coinage. Other author doubted the uncertainty of Sultan Muzaffar early coinage due to the questionable reading of the last cipher of that latter date on whatever record was available to the compiler of the dynastic list. The coins are well struck and somewhat resemble the contemporary coppers of the sultans of Madura in southern India. Like all tin coins of the region, they are referred to as “pitis.” Tin coins had been issued not too much earlier by Sumatran Pasai.

Muzaffar Shah-Obverse

Muzaffar Shah-Reverse


Obverse: Muzaffar Shah Al-Sultan (in Arabic script).
Reverse: Nasir Al-Dunia Wa’l Din (Arabic). Meaning The helper of the world and of the religion of Islam.
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: 319 mm.
Weight: 2.3 grammes.
Composition: Tin (82%-83%) Lead (17%-18%)
Mint: Malacca mint.

Hearing of Malacca’s great wealth coming from Asian traders, the Portuguese king sent Admiral Lopes de Sequeira to find Malacca, to make a friendly compact with its ruler and to stay on Portugal’s representative east of India. The first European to reach Malacca and Southeast Asia, Sequeira arrived in Malacca in 1509. Although he was initially well-received by Sultan Mahmud Shah trouble however quickly ensued. The general feeling of rivalry between Islam and Christianity was invoked by a group of Goa Muslims in the sultan’s court after the Portuguese had captured Goa. The international Muslim trading community convinced Mahmud that the Portuguese were a grave threat. Mahmud subsequently captured several of his men, killed others and attempted to attack the four Portuguese ships, although they escaped. As the Portuguese had found in India, conquest would be the only way they could establish themselves in Malacca.

In April 1511, Afonso de Albuquerque set sail from Goa to Malacca with a force of some 1200 men and seventeen or eighteen ships. The Viceroy made a number of demands – one of which was for permission to build a fortress as a Portuguese trading post near the city. All the demands were refused by the Sultan. Conflict was unavoidable, and after 40 days of fighting, Malacca fell to the Portuguese on 24 August 1511. Although Malacca seems to have been well supplied with artillery, but the combination of Portuguese firepower, determination and fanatical courage prevailed. A bitter dispute between Sultan Mahmud and his son Sultan Ahmad also weighed down the Malaccan side.

The sultan then retreated to Kampar in Sumatra where he died two years later. He left behind two sons named Muzaffar Shah and Alauddin Riayat Shah II. Muzaffar Shah was invited by the people in the north of the peninsula to become their ruler, establishing the Sultanate of Perak. Meanwhile, Mahmud’s other son, Alauddin succeeded his father and made a new capital in the south. His realm was the Sultanate of Johor, the successor of Malacca.

Photo by: skydrivelive.com
Data source: Mallaca collection of coinage book, wikipedia

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/09/melaka-coinage-malacca-sultanate-tin.html#ixzz1qKEqz8fv

 

 

At the start of the 16th century a new European nation went adventuring on the high seas. The Dutch, who had fought a very long war for independence against their Spanish overlords, had finally established themselves and proceeded to build themselves a great trading economy. Not the least bit reconciled with their former masters, the Dutch went into direct competition with them in India and southeast Asia, employing the military option wherever necessary. The Netherlands East Indies (N.E.I) are included all Dutch territories in Java, The Moluccas Islands, Malacca and Sumatra. The Dutch who expanding their influence in the Far East combined with the forces of the Sultan of Johore and captured the Malacca from the Portuguese on January 14, 1641. In this 150 years of Dutch East India Company (V.O.C., Verenidge Oostindische Compagnie) have exclusive monopoly power on trade.

 

 

The first Dutch coinage of the V.O.C for Malacca was issued in 1641. All those earlier Portuguese coins and other circulating currency were retained for trading purposes. In fact, coins for use by the V.O.C in the Netherlands East Indies (N.E.I) were struck in the following Provinces, most of them in gold and silver. Holland (HOLL), West friesland (WESTF), Zeeland (S+ZEEL or ZEL), Utreht (TRAI), Gelderland (GEL), Overijsel(TRANSI) and N.E.I for Province of Groningen. The following are the common coinages of Dutch we see in market circulation:- Half Doit (HOLL, ZEEL, WESTF, GEL,) One Doit,, Half Guilder Silver Rider Quarter Stiver, Half Stiver, Bonk One Stiver, Bonk One & Two Stivers, Batavia Quarter Crown, Batavia Half Crown.

 

The Dutch overseas companies started playing around with striking coins to use in their overseas operations as early as 1602, but these were pretty much patterns or trials made in very small numbers, hardly used if ever, and extremely rare today. A few years after the Dutch took Malacca a coin shortage was recognized as being in progress throughout the Dutch East Indies, and the authorities at Batavia (modern Jakarta in Indonesia) produced some local products in an attempt to ameliorate the situation. These emergency coins were struck in silver and tin in several denominations, but were disallowed and suppressed by the home office back in Holland. The tin coins are said by Saran Singh to have circulated in Malacca, so are pertinent to this story. Mr. Singh also mentions that the Portuguese tin bazarucos of Malacca were called in and recoined with Dutch designs shortly after the territory changed hands, but that none of the Dutch coins have survived.

 

 

With the center of operations now being Batavia, the importance of Malacca declined, and it became an outpost rather than a key player. Despite some playing around with the idea of issuing coins during the 17th century, the VOC’s governors found it more convenient to use Spanish cobs in trade. VOC coinage didn’t really get off the ground until the 1720s, when production of the well known copper VOC duits began. These proved to be very popular throughout the islands and Malaya. Struck in large quantities, they are today among the most common and least expensive of 18th century coins. Struck by seven mints in the Netherlands, one can collect them by date with at least a theoretical possibility of completing a set. Though they were indeed used in Malaya, the vast majority of specimens available to collectors come out of the ground in Indonesia. Low grade pieces with corrosion are normal. Uncirculated of otherwise high grade specimens are rare, as are the off metal versions in silver, gold, etc., struck for contemporary collectors.

 

A series of silver coins – crowns and fractions – was also struck during the 18th century. These were not used very much, the Spanish dollar being preferred, and they are not so easy to find these days. Meanwhile, as all this colonial activity was going on, a number of native kingdoms were in operation on the Malay peninsula, and Thailand was active in the north.

Here are some of the coin used during Dutch East Indies occupation in Malacca:

 

1 Stiver (Tin)-Obverse

 

 

1 Stiver (Tin)-Reverse

Obverse: Logo of the Dutch VOC above the date
Reverse: Counterstamp of Holland crown shield beside is a rectangular counterstamp (I.S) means 1 Stiver
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: Irregular shape (Approx 30mm- 32 mm.)
Weight: 15.2 grammes.
Composition: Tin (81%) Lead (19%)
Mint: Malacca mint. Condition: Rare

 

1 Stiver (Tin)-Obverse

 

 

1 Stiver (Tin)-Reverse

Obverse: The date above the (G;y) logo.
Reverse: Logo of the dutch VOC above the counterstamp (I.S) means 1 Stiver
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: 28.5mm- 29.5 mm.
Weight: 12.7 grammes.
Composition: Tin (81%) Lead (19%)
Mint: Malacca mint. Condition: Rare

 

 

2 Stiver (Tin)-Reverse

 

 

2 Stiver (Tin)-Obverse

 

Obverse: The date above the (G;y) logo.
Reverse: The letter I between the Logo of the dutch VOC above the counterstamp (2.S) means 2 Stiver
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: 34.5mm- 35 mm.
Weight: 26.6 grammes.
Composition: Tin (83%) Lead (17%)
Mint: Malacca mint.

Condition: Very Rare

Photo by: skydrivelive.com
Data source: Mallaca collection of coinage book, anythinganywhere, Melaka Century Currency

Southern Indochina and Malay Archipelago since early times were under strong influence of India, which strongly influenced flat coinage of this region, and originated first forms of native primitive money. Succeed by Chinese presence in the region, Chinese ingots came into circulation, and developed new forms of ingot currency. Earlier ingots, flower money, served the prototype for “Namo” coins because of Indian Hindu symbol “na” shown on the coins.

This tin currency are used during 14-15 century around Parameswara (Sultan of Malacca) period. Most of the tin blocks are either in square or round in shape and all have flower motives on the top surface. The bottom has a hole approximately parralel to the axis. The hole is in the centre of bottom face at an angle to the face of the bottom of the “tampang”. A stick was inserted, probably while the tin was molten; then when hardened, the tampang money could be easily removed from the mould.

 

Each tampang ingot money normally weight 1 LB 15 OZ (900 grammes) or sometimes 1 LB 10 OZ (750 grammes). The lightest of this tampang money is approximately 564 grammes and the heaviest is 879 grammes. The reason this tampang money loss some weight maybe because the of the holes beneath them. Some of tampang tin ingot money in Perak (upper north states in Malaysia) found, the holes beneath the tampang has been filled.

Here is some of Mallaca Tampang Tin ingot money:

Obverse:Four pointed petal flower.
Reverse: Normally it is either a square or a round block of tin.
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: Top 44.5 mm-45.5mm, Bottom 63 mm – 65 mm.
Height: 34 mm -36 mm.
Weight: 777.5 grammes.
Period: 14-15 century.
Composition: Tin.
Condition: Scarce.


Obverse: A complicated design in the centre of a round tampang.
Reverse: Normally it is either a square or a round block of tin.
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: Top 49 mm-49.5mm, Bottom 57 mm – 58 mm.
Height: 31 mm -33 mm.
Weight: 611.7 grammes.
Period: 14-15 century.
Composition: Tin.
Condition: Very rare.


Obverse: A four pointed petal flower with for dots-one on each side of the tampang.
Reverse: Normally it is either a square or a round block of tin.
Edge: Plain.
Diameter: Top 46 mm, Bottom 54 mm – 56 mm.
Height: 29.5 mm -30 mm.
Weight: 607.6 grammes.
Period: 14-15 century.
Composition: Tin.
Condition: Scarce.




Photo by: skydrivelive.com

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/09/melaka-coinage-tampang-tin-ingot-money.html#ixzz1qKFaXe2x

I found many information about Malacca Portuguse tin coinage story. I will share most of them in here today with everyone. If any of the information I found is not correct, please email me with the correct data. I will divided this melaka coinage story into 6 post for easy viewing of the coinage. Tin Animal Money is early money believed to be first used by the royal courts of Malay Peninsula in the 15th century. These Tin Animal Money later evolved into a form of currency used in Perak, Selangor and Negeri Sembilan. The most common shape was the crocodile money, others include tortoises, elephants, fish, crickets, beetles, and others. Another shapes of money were developing as well, and besides of varieties of primitively formed tin ingots, various animal shaped ingots appeared in early 18th century. However, some authors dates first animal shaped ingots, supposed originated in Malacca, by early 15th century.

The form of animal shaped ingots was originated both, from Hindu (e.g. elephant), and from China (e.g. tortoise). Besides having a monetary function, these ingots carried a religious value. It was common practice for Chinese miners to guarantee that the new tin opening would be lucky by making an animal sacrifice before indulging in thecustomary celebration [Doyle]. Animal shaped ingots were widely produced in Perak. A variety of ingot money (fighting cock ingot) was circulated in Kedah and Perlis in the middle of the 18th century. Another variety of ingots appeared based on the pagoda and pyramid series in Pahang. It was shaped in so called “tin hat” shape so that it included a hollow pagoda under the tin carcass. This form of ingots is the first known to be originated in Malay Sultanates and carried a legend. According to Saran Singh, first known tin hat shaped ingot appeared in 1819.


Tin Animal Money shaped of Tortoise discovered at reclamation developments.

 

Tin animal money of Fish shaped with Chinese character Seng Cai growing wealth.

 

Tortoise Tin Money of the 15th century.

 

Tin clamp money of the 15th century.

 

Animal Tin Money shaped of FISH decorated with pattern and embossed Chinese.

 

Animal Tin Money shaped of TORTOISE decorated with pattern and embossed China character.

 

Animal tin money shaped of CROCODILE discovered at reclamation developments .

 

Animal tin money shaped of standing rooster, weighted around 35 grams.

 

Animal tin money with crystallize form grow on the surfaced in patches.

 

Source: Picture by skydrivelive.com, data by Melaka Century Currency, Classification of ingot money.

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/09/melaka-coinage-animal-tin-money.html#ixzz1qKFreeGY

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I am looking for some information about Melaka Portuguese coinage for this past few days. I bought an old Malacca Portuguese coinage from a flea market recently without any spesific detail about them. The seller only told me that this coin is a Melaka-Portugis /Portugal coinage found in Melaka shore recently. As you see in the picture, the coin still have a trace of sea sand on them. This has bring me to a long hours searching over the internet for their history and origin. I don’t collect tin cash before but this old coin still in the very fine condition with all the detail can be seen. The looks and the price tempted me to buy them.

After further investigation I found out that this is a Malacca Sebastiao coin, dated 1557-78. It made from tin dinheiro with flanking 3 arrows on the reverse and armillary sphere diagonal Left-Right on the obverse. While searching for information about this coin information. I found many information about Malacca Portuguse tin coinage story. I will share most of them in here today with everyone. If any of the information I found is not correct, please email me with the correct data. I will divided this melaka coinage story into 6 post for easy viewing of the coinage.



I found this in a website: The History of Melaka Century Currency

  • Malacca was captured by the Portuguese on August 24, 1511, under the command of Governor Alfonso D’Alburguerque, for 130 over years. From the occupation of Malacca by the Portuguese in 1521, it was administered as part of the territory of Goa in Portuguese India.
  • Gold and silver coins were struck in Malacca by the mind set up by Governor Alfonso D’Albuquerque of India right from the first year of the occupation, i.e. 1511, during the reign of King Dom Mnuell. Among the initial currency issues were the commemorative Catolico and the Meio Catolico, both minted in gold and, the third commemorative in silver, the Malaques, named after Malacca.
  • There were two separate coinages in Malacca during the reign of King Dom Joao III; the De Castro issue and the Malacca Mint issue. The De Castro issue was struck during the governorship of Dom Joao de Castro, the 4th Viceroy of Indis (1545-1548) was in gold as well as in tin. The gold coins were the Escudo de Sao Tome and the Quarter Escudo de Sao Tome, minted in Lisbon and Goa for circulation in India and the ten Portuguese territories. The tin coins were the Bastardo, Soldo and Dinheiro which were also minted in Lisbon for circulation in Malacca. But, those minted in Malacca issues of Bastardo, Soldo and Dinheiro are known to any, where it was minted, where? But, the local minted in Malacca, its quality and workmanship are really poor!
  • The coinage of King Dom Sebastiao, the tin coins were the distinctive bastardo, Soldo and Dinheiro. On the Bastardo, the armillary sphere was replaced by crossed arrows and the letter “S B”. The Soldo had either double arrows a or triple arrows and the letters “B A”, for the Dinheiro, there were at least two issues, one with the armillary and triple arrows; on the other sailing ship replaced by the sphere.
  • During the reign of King Dom Felipe II (1598-1621) there had been no official record of any coins minted at or for Malacca market until Mitchner’s No. 3155, the Half Tanga 1615 M A the only silver piece known by us. Also there is no distinctive tin coins appear to have issued by the MalaccaMint during the reign of King Dom Felipe III of Portugal, only the silver one, They were only in four denominationa, the (i) Half Tanga (ii) the Tanga (iii) the Double Tanga (iv) the Quadruple Tanga. This Quadruple Tang was struck between the years 1633-1636 at the malcca Mint or may be at the Goa Mint specially designed and issued for Malacca. All denominations of silver Tanga of Malacca with the mintmark of “A M” or “M A” of the Malacca Mint!


Malacca Portuguese tin coin Bastardo 1511-1641

 

Obverse :
Armillary Sphere with Ecliptic Circle falling from left to right surround by Legend & Dmpr De Pvs Or Die Mala For D(Om) M(Anoel) P(Primero) R(Ei) De Pv(Rtugal) S(Enh) Or D(A) I(Ndia) E Mala(Cca), Translated-(Dom Manoel The First, King Of Portugal And Lord Of India And Malacca) within a bead Circule Round The Outer Edge Of Legend.
Reverse :
Cross of the order of the knights of christ surrounded by two circules of breads and and the legent “crvx xpi nostre spes unica” translated – (cross of christ our only hope – of salvation)
Diameter :38 MM
Thickness : 5 MM
Weight : 48 Grammes
Composition : Tin

 

Portuguese Goa lead Bazaruco in 1600s


Obverse : The Cross Of The Order Of Christ
Reverse : The Armilitary Sphere
Diameter : 11 MM
Weight : 0.8 Grammes
Composition : Tin

 

Portuguese Malacca tin coin in 1500s

 

 

Portuguese Malacca tin coin during occupation 1511-1641

 

 

Portuguese Malacca tin coin during occupation 1511-1641

 

Silver Tanga under the reign of Philip IV was King of Spain from 1621

 

Melaka Portuguese silver Tanga dated 1640 discovered in Melaka River

Source: Picture by skydrivelive.com, data by Melaka Century Currency

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/09/melaka-coinage-portuguse-tin-coins.html#ixzz1qKGAGFuN

A Young woman in Ludlow become the the first person to be convicted of failing to hand in suspected treasure coin in Britain. Kate Harding, 23, was prosecuted under the Treasure Act after she ignored orders to report the rare find to a coroner. She found a 700-year-old silver piedfort marking Charles IV’s 1322 coin in her garden discovered 14 years ago as she worked in the garden with her mother. When her mother’s past away last year, she approached museum experts with the coin who identified it as a piedfort, but she did not inform the coroner.

Photo by dailymail.uk: Kate Harding outside the court

 

This is a landmark case in UK for Treasure Act 1996, treasure finder fail to report Treasure. Under the Treasure Act 1996, treasure is defined as any single object at least 300 years old which is not a coin but has a precious metal content of at least 10 per cent. The Act gives a finder 14 days to inform the local coroner of potential treasure and creates an offence of failing to carry out that duty where this is not followed.

Photo by BBC News: The silver piedfort

 

Photo by dailmail.UK: The silver piedfort

 

The silver piedfort marked Charles IV’s ascension to the French throne in 1322. The exact use of piedforts is unknown. They are generally thicker than coins and were not used as currency. Experts have suggested they were used as guides for mint workers or as reckoning counters for officials. Only three others have been found in the UK. One found in 2007 was bought by the British Museum for £1,800.

Ludlow magistrates heard how Miss Harding had ignored calls and letters from Ludlow Museum advising her to report the piedfort to the district coroner once it had been identified last February. Museum staff then notified Anthony Sibcy, the coroner for South Shropshire, who informed police. Miss Harding initially claimed she had lost the piedfort, the court heard. Defending Miss Harding, Brendan Reedy said she had failed to notify the coroner because of ‘ disorganisation’ on her part and that the artefact had a sentimental value to her. Miss Harding, who lives with her boyfriend on the outskirts of Ludlow, admitted having an object that is believed to have been treasure and not reporting it to the coroner. She faced up to three months in jail or a fine, or both, but walked free from court on Wednesday with a conditional discharge and was ordered to pay £25 of the £300 costs.

 

The court only fine her with a small fee. Maybe this action by the court is just a warning to all treasure hunter out there who found a treasure but will not report it. Some people really gain a lots from treasure that they find. She found that coin in her house 14 years ago but the Act already stated any suspected treasure need to be reported. Treasure found maybe an important artifact to that particular country. But this young woman isn’t a treasure hunter. She look like a victim for the authority effort to stop metal detector treasure hunter in the country. What is your say about this?


Source: Dailymail.uk, BBC News

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/02/young-woman-prosecuted-not-reporting.html#ixzz1qKGtERa9

A group of treasure hunter unearthed 178 Henry I coins scattered across a remote patch of farmland near Knaresborough, North Yorkshire worth £40,000. The 15 members of the West Riding Detector Group struck silver with the largest hoard of the coins ever discovered in the North of England. The coins were declared official treasure on Wednesday by the North Yorkshire County Coroner and will now be sent for valuation before being sold to a museum. The proceeds will be split between the group and the landowner whose field the hoard was discovered in. The group discovered the hoard between April 2008 and April 2009.

 

 

Peter Spencer, a member of the group, said: “Usually when you are detecting you find bits of old cartridge case or worthless metal, but that day every time you heard a bleep it was another coin.”

 

“We weren’t even supposed to have an outing that day and it was organised at the last minute, but we’re all pretty pleased we went.”

 

Delivery driver Julian Szulc, 49, said: “It was like winning the Lottery.”

 

“I have been detecting for 10 years and this is something you can only dream about.”

 

“I think we might get about £40,000 for them, which is a brilliant amount, but it is about more than the money for us.”

 

Peter Spencer said: “There were 178 coins from the reign of Henry I, most of them were pennies, but a few were cut half-pennies.”

 

“It was tremendously exciting. Hoards of Norman coins are very far and few between. Detectors find things on a daily basis so in a year I would see maybe seven or eight individual Norman coins, but a hoard of this size is the only one that I have ever found in England which contains just one type of penny.”

 

Mr Spence said the coins, which date from about 1132, would today have a face value of between £7,000 and £8,000.

 

 

Jeffrey Warden, one of the finders, said: “It’s a special feeling – it’s like winning the lottery. We knew within minutes we had found something special. I have been doing this 27 years and it’s the best thing I have found.”

 

The find, known as the Knaresborough Area Hoard, was the centre of a hearing in Harrogate yesterday.Following the recommendation of an expert from the British Museum, coroner Rob Turnbull classified the coins as treasure. They will now be officially valued and any museums interested in obtaining them will have six months to come up with funds. Several institutions have expressed an interest, including the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge.

 

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/04/treasure-hunt-group-unearthed-178-henry.html#ixzz1qKHE0RTS

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One of the oldest shipwreck site was found near the town of Salcombe by divers from the South West Maritime Archaeological Group. One of the historic find in the Shipwreck site including a 3,000 year old Bronze Age trading vessel which is the oldest shipwreck ever found in Britain. Investigation and recovery work on the boat’s cargo was carried out by archaeologists from South West Maritime Archaeological Group (SWMAG) between February and November 2009, but the find was only made public this month at the annual International Shipwreck Conference in Plymouth.

Photo: A diver searches for sunken treasure using an underwater metal detector.

 

Photo: A golden bracelets, was part of a 900 B.C. cargo discovered in May 2009.

 

Photo: Golden bracelets, called torques.


So far, 295 artifacts with a combined weight of 84 kilograms have been retrieved by SWMAG at the shipwreck site. The Bronze Age treasure was found in the Salcombe region, close to the shore and in just 26 to 33 feet (8 to 10 meters) of water. Three golden bracelets found in the most recently identified Salcombe shipwreck site gleamed enough to be noticed. While the new found wreck yielded several golden bracelets, called torques, the previously discovered site included even rarer treasures, which date to between 1300 and 1100 B.C. Once worn as a bracelet, the braided-wire torque is incredibly rare, with the closest known example coming from France, according to Ben Roberts of the British Museum.

Photo: Hundreds of copper and tin ingots found at shipwreck site.


But the large quantity of metal ingots at the site resemble gravel cobbles, making them very hard to distinguish in undersea rock gullies. Shaped into pellets convenient for shipping, copper and tin ingots were the raw material for making the metal which defines the Bronze Age. The Salcombe shipwreck’s 259 copper ingots likely came from overseas, possibly from mines in central Europe or what is now Spain, according to the study team. This metal ingots would have been used to make bronze, which was the key product of the period. The bronze would in turn have been used to fashion all from tools to weapons and jewellery.


Sadly none of the ship’s structure remains. Most likely it has been rotted away over the centuries. But experts have speculated that it was probably a “bulk carrier” about 12 metres long by almost two metres wide, and made out of long timber planks or a wooden frame with animal hide stretched across it. It would have been crewed by about 15 men and powered by paddle. A narrow row boat might sound like an exposed and treacherous way of crossing the English Channel, but it’s thought that intrepid Bronze Age mariners would have used vessels like this to criss-cross the waterway with some frequency.

Source: National Geographic Daily News, Photo courtesy South West Maritime Archaeological Group, Independent News UK.

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2010/02/britain-oldest-shipwreck-site-found.html#ixzz1qKHRicWB

One of Scotland most important hoard discovery of the century, a hoard of Iron Age jewellery found by a treasure hunter in Stirlingshire has gone on display in Edinburgh. A news by BBC reported, the four gold Iron Age neck ornaments, or torcs, date from between the 1st and 3rd Century BC and are said to be worth an estimated £1m. They were found in a field by safari park manager David Booth, he found the hoard just seven step away from his car and he just bought and using his metal detector for the first time; “a beginners luck”. He found the ‘torcs’ buried just six inches beneath the surface in a field near Stirling.

 

Photo: David Booth with his finds

 

Booth only buy his £240 gadget and detect knives and forks in his own kitchen as practice. But just one hour into his first outdoor foray and only seven paces from where he had parked the car he became the Scotland most famous finder. The find was in five pieces; three intact necklets and two fragments of another torc, all gold and silver alloy with a touch of copper. Two of the pieces are ribbon torcs, twisted carefully from sheet gold with flattened ends. These are Scottish or Irish in origin. The fragments are from a South-west French style annular torc, which would have been an enclosed circle with a hinge and catch. But the piece that is really getting experts excited is a looped terminal torc with decorative ends, made from eight golden wires looped together and decorated with thin threads and chains. All the pieces date to between 300 and 100 BC. The Stirling find appears to reveal links between local tribes, traditionally seen as isolated and other Iron Age people in Europe.

 

Photo: the site (Yellow bucket mark Booth found the hoard) with timber-frame building

 

Further excavations have been carried out in the field where the find was made. No further gold has been discovered but archaeologists have found a timber-frame building, and they believe the site could have been some kind of shrine. Meanwhile, the future of the gold has yet to be decided. It is currently under the care of the Treasure Trove Unit, which has lent it to the museum so the public can get an idea what the find is like. Finders have no ownership rights and must report any objects to the Treasure Trove Unit, but they may receive a reward equal to the value. The items were unveiled at the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh until 10 February. The Scottish Archaeological Finds Allocation Panel will value the latest discovery.

 

Source: BBC News, nms.ac.uk, dailymail.co.uk, msnbc.

Do You know what is the worlds first coin? Lydian third stater, or trite, minted sometime around 600 BC in Lydia, Asia Minor (current-day Turkey), a country in close geographic and cultural proximity to the Greek colonies in Asia Minor Is the world 1st coin. It’s made of electrum, an alloy of gold and silver called “white gold” in ancient times (50-60 percent gold with these coins). One of the many fascinating aspects of this coin is the mysterious sunburst above the lion’s eye.

 

The first metal coins are regarded by some as having been invented in China. The earliest known Chinese metal tokens were made ca. 900 BC, discovered in a tomb near Anyang. These were replicas in bronze of earlier Chinese money, cowrie shells, so they were named Bronze Shell. Most numismatists, however, regard these as well as later Chinese bronzes that were replicas of knives, spades, and hoes as money but not as coins because they didn’t at least initially carry a mark or marks certifying them to be of a definite exchange value.

Coins originated independently in Anatolia, with most numismatists regarding Lydia as the birthplace of coinage. The Greeks soon adopted the Lydian practice and extended it to commerce and trade, with coinage following Greek colonization and influence first around the eastern Mediterranean and soon after to North Africa (including Egypt), Syria, Persia, and the Balkans.

The first Lydian coins were made of electrum, an alloy of silver and gold. Many early Lydian coins were undoubtedly struck (manufactured) under the authority of private individuals and are thus more akin to tokens than true coins, though because of their numbers it’s evident that some were official state issues, with King Alyattes of Lydia being the most frequently mentioned originator of coinage.

Most of the early Lydian coins have no writing on them, just images of symbolic animals. Therefore the dating of these coins relies primarily on archeological evidence, with the most commonly cited evidence coming from excavations at the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, also called the Ephesian Artemision (which would later evolve into one of the Seven Wonders of the ancient world).

A small percentage of early Lydian coins include writing, called a “legend” or “inscription.” Another famous early electrum coin with a legend is from nearby Caria, Asia Minor, with the legend reading, “I am the badge of Phanes.” Nothing is known about who Phanes was, but one logical assumption is that he was a wealthy merchant.

The Lydian’s invented a way to verify if gold was pure or not, they used a black stone that was like jasper and later became known as the touchstone. The goldsmiths would rub the gold object against a set of 24 needles containing varying amounts of the 3 metals: gold, silver, and copper. The 24th needle of course was pure gold, thus creating the system to show that 24 carats is pure gold, (carat is a word derived from the Greek word Keration.)

Source: rg.ancient info, www.coinace.com, wikipedia

Do you know what is the world first banknote? I found a story about the first money, jiaozi banknote. It started when people used paper money as a circulating medium after a shortages of metal for coins. In ancient China coins were circular with a rectangular hole in the middle. Several coins could be strung together on a rope. Merchants in China, if they became rich enough, found that their strings of coins were too heavy to carry around easily. To solve this problem, coins were often left with a trustworthy person, and the merchant was given a slip of paper recording how much money he had with that person. If he showed the paper to that person he could regain his money. Eventually from this paper money jiaozi originated.

 

In the 600s there were local issues of paper currency in China and by 960 the Song Dynasty, short of copper for striking coins, issued the first generally circulating notes. A note is a promise to redeem later for some other object of value, usually specie. The issue of credit notes is often for a limited duration, and at some discount to the promised amount later. The jiaozi banknote nevertheless did not replace coins during the Song Dynasty; paper money was used alongside the coins.


The successive Yuan Dynasty was the first dynasty in China to use paper currency as the predominant circulating medium. The founder of the Yuan Dynasty,Kublai Khan, issued paper money known as Chao in his reign. The original notes during the Yuan Dynasty were restricted in area and duration as in the Song Dynasty, but in the later course of the dynasty, facing massive shortages of specie to fund their ruling in China, began printing paper money without restrictions on duration. By 1455, in an effort to rein in economic expansion and end the new Ming Dynasty ended paper money, and closed much of Chinese trade.

I try to find a new picture and story of jiaozi banknote, world first banknote but I cannot found any.

Source: wikipedia

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2008/10/worlds-first-banknote-song-dynasty.html#ixzz1qKINzSXL

 

Do you know which country has the smallest banknote? I am posting this post a long time ago and doing this edited post to tell you this two is still the smallest banknote I can find. What I found out there is two banknote that been said as a world smallest banknote. One from a personal website http://www.tomchao.com. While another one is from a Guinness Worlds Records 2008 website. Most of my search via google bring me into a website with other smallest thing in this world. So here is the story of the smallest paper money in this world.

 

 

 

From Tomchao website, he put Morroco 50 centimes as a smallest banknote. Small denomination coins were in short supply during WWI. Morocco issued postage size 50 Centimes, 1 Franc and 2 Francs cardboard notes as temporary substitutes for coins. This 50 Centimes banknote only measuring at 41mm x 32mm. The banknote is in red color and issued in 1944.

 

 

Photo by: aes.iupui.edu.

 

Guinness Worlds Records 2008 put this Romania 10 bani issued by Romania ministry of finance issued in 1917 as the worlds smallest national currency. Romania 10 bani banknote printed area measured 27.5 mm x 38 mm. The banknote color is green and you can see the year issued with the word Romania. My blog reader, Alex from Romania ( http://colectiebancnote.blogspot.com/) inform me that this banknote is not really a banknote ,it’s a paper coin. It’s a divisionary note (100 bani=1 leu ),and the guy from the note is King Ferdinand (1914-1927). King Ferdinand succeeded his uncle on the latter’s death (Carol I of Romania died without surviving issue) as King of Romania on 10 October 1914, reigning until his own death on 20 July 1927.

 

At first, I do think Romania 10 bani bill is the smallest banknote if looking for the size given. After thinking about it for a while, based on printed area, Morroco 50 centimes could be the world smallest banknote. I also wish one day I can put this banknote in my collection. Which do you think is the worlds smallest banknote? Do you have any other banknote that smaller then this two? Please, don’t afraid to comment and

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2008/12/worlds-smallest-banknote-which-one.html#ixzz1qKIbBaLV

I am looking for Polymer banknotes history like how people start to make polymer banknotes. Found some info in wikipedia but I think this old story from thestar.com.my is more suitable to what i am looking for. I am not a fan of Polymer banknotes because most of the time the design and the price not that attractive to me. I have meet most of this guy in their shop at Amcorp Mall before and their book World Polymer Banknotes- a standard reference is still the best books about polymer banknote.

 

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Monday August 15, 2005

Durable plastic money
By MAJORIE CHIEW

 

Polymer banknotes have been around for almost a quarter of a century, with more than three billion bills circulating in 26 countries today. Malaysia first joined the plastic money club with a RM50 denomination. Now, three Malaysians have put the country ahead of the polymer pack. After eight months of research, three Malaysian banknote collectors wrote, compiled and designed a collector’s tome, World Polymer Banknotes – A Standard Reference.

 

The trio – Peter Eu, Ben Chiew and Julian Chee – claim the book is the first reference in its category which documents and records the history, development and listing of world polymer banknotes.

 

 

 

“It’s timely as there has not been such a publication on polymer banknotes of the world,” says Eu, 35, a decade-long collector of these banknotes. Chiew, also 35, started the hobby eight years ago while Chee, 32, got the bug only two years ago. In fact, it was the shared passion that brought the Malacca High School alumni together, first as collectors and then, business partners.

 

Interest in polymer banknotes has come out, seemingly from nowhere, over the past few years. It is the swelling ranks of collectors that convinced the trio of the need for such a book, that introduces as well as promotes the hobby.

 

Why collect polymer banknotes?

 

Eu started it as a hobby because he felt “polymer banknotes are more durable, colourful as well as exciting.” “Polymer notes are easier and more affordable to collect,” says Chiew. Even though collectors have to pay a certain premium than the face value of these currencies, the premium is not that high. Besides, many of these polymer banknotes are still legal tender compared to paper currencies, of which some may not be legal tender but still have numismatic value.

 

Collecting polymer currencies can be an educational journey, if not an appreciation of the artwork. “A collector can learn about the country and prominent icons. Children, too, can find it an invaluable lesson. They can enhance their knowledge of the world,” Chee says. Banknote enthusiasts also make new acquaintances in their search for rare, interesting or “missing” banknotes to complete their collections.

 

One can start to collect through exchanging with other collectors, via the Internet or ebay. “Flea markets in the Klang Valley can also be a place to look out for these notes,” says Chee, who cited Amcorp Mall in Petaling Jaya as a location where dealers and collectors can be found.

 

Polymer banknotes are considerably new in Malaysia. In 1998, Bank Negara Malaysia (BNM) issued a RM50 polymer banknote. It was a commemorative issue in conjunction with the XVI Commonwealth Games. Only half a million were issued. “Nine out of 10 Malaysians probably have not seen the RM50 polymer banknote,” says Eu, who thinks that “polymer banknotes will be the future of currency.”

 

Benefits of polymer banknotes

 

Last year, BNM released a new polymer RM5 banknote which all of us are familiar with.

 

“Compared to paper banknotes, the polymer banknotes are twice as expensive to produce, but last four to five times longer. As a result, they are replaced less often which leads to lower production costs. They can more durable and won’t fade with handling. Hence, they can be washed and won’t get damaged in the washing machine,” he says.

 

Polymer banknotes are clean throughout their life. Impermeable to water, sweat or liquid, they don’t absorb moisture, odour or get stained. The final over coating (with a protective varnish) also protects the banknote from excessive ink wear.

 

Polymer banknotes have better security. These banknotes can incorporate new and advanced security features unavailable to paper banknotes such as transparent window and holograms. The transparent window is a key security feature of a polymer banknote.

 

A notable history

 

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, du Pont pioneered this evolution of technology in currency with its Tyvek polymer, a material that was jointly developed by du Pont and American Banknote Company. It was later discovered that the printing ink does not bond to the Tyvek material and after handling a few times, the ink on the notes smudges and wears off.

 

 

The first three countries to introduce such banknotes were Haiti, Costa Rica and Isle of Man.

 

In the late 1980s, the Reserve Bank of Australia developed and perfected the technique with Guardian polymer, and introduced plastic banknotes in 1988. Today, all countries that issue polymer currency use this version.

 

Currently, Australia, New Zealand and Romania have fully converted to polymer banknotes.

 

Brunei also plans to fully convert to polymer banknotes except for big denominations involving B$500, B$1,000 and B$10,000.

 

World Polymer Banknotes – A Standard Reference (1st edition 2005/2006) is available from MPH, Kinokuniya and other major bookstores at RM39.90. It can also be purchased from the website, www.eurekametro.com

 

The 208-page reference book lists more than 500 banknotes with 60 banknotes illustrated in high-resolution images. It is educational for both collectors and non-collectors as it includes the currency history, data of each country, description of the artwork of each banknote and information of the currency.

————————————————————————————————-

 

Source: the star-lifestyle-15 August 2005

 

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/02/plastic-money.html#ixzz1qKJDQpdf

This Blog

This Blog

 

 

 

 

 

In 1933, 445,000 gold Double Eagle coins were minted. At this time, during the Great Depression, President Franklin Roosevelt took the U.S. off the gold standard. People were ordered to turn in their gold and no more gold coins were to be issued for circulation. All of the 1933 Double Eagles were ordered to be destroyed. Some of these coins escaped the melting. Two were given to the Smithsonian Institute for the U.S. National Numismatic Collection. In the 1950’s the Secret Service confiscated eight more of these 1933 Double Eagles.

The true story may never be known as to how they left the mint, but a coin dealer sold at least nine of them and one ended up in the collection of King Farouk of Eqypt. 40 years later, the coin showed up in New York in the possession of a coin dealer. The Secret Service seized the expensive coin and a legal battle began in court. During the several years of litigation, the expensive collectible was stored in the Treasury vaults at the World Trade Center, but after the lawsuit was finally settled in 2001 the coin was moved and later auctioned off on July 30, 2002 for $6.6 million, plus a buyer’s fee of 15% for a total price for the world’s most expensive coin $7,590,020.

In 2004. ten more specimens of the gold Double Eagle coins were discovered among the effects of the coin dealer who sold the previous specimens. One of his heirs sent all ten to the U.S. Mint to be authenticated and the Secret Service seized them. They now reside in Fort Knox while a new legal battle is fought over their ownership of these copies of the most expensive coin ever sold.

source: http://most-expensive.net/coin-world

This record has already been beaten by The Neil/Carter/Contrusi 1794 flowing hair dollar, sold for $7.85 million to the Cardinal Collection Educational Foundation of Sunnyvale by Steven L. Contursi.

 

Read more: http://lunaticg.blogspot.com/2009/01/worlds-most-expensive-coin-usa-1933.html#ixzz1qKJWn8hQ

 

Lot 580: 10 RUPIAH 1974, PATTERN. Brass-Clad Steel. KM-38(pn). Issued coins in different theme (National Saving Program). Theme : HINDU PRAMBANAN TEMPLE at Central Java. Plain edge. Weight 3.78 gm. Several small stains; otherwise Almost Uncirculated. VERY RARE.
Limit price :   Rp.  2,000,000

 

Javan rupees including this Madura star countermarked example:priced at $150-$200++This priced at $4500++:

“BRITISH EAST INDIA COMPANY, FORT MARLBRO, 2 SUKUS AH 1197 (1783 AD). KM-271! Sch-941 (RR). Silver. From the name of the British Fort Marlborough in Benculen (Bengkulu), at the West Coast of Sumatra. Rev. leg. in Jawi script : “”Uang Kompani Duwa Suku 1197 (AH)””. Plain edge, Struck at Calcutta. Weight 12.73 gm! diameter 25 mm. Very Fine. EXTREMELY RARE.”

Also quite a number of gold massa and mas (10th through 18th centuries), some very specialist Bangka tin mine tokens (ca. 1800)

along with the Bangka sycee

Looks like somebody sold their collection….

They have some postcards including this interesting ‘coins of the East Indies’ example from 1909:

 
   

 

* the paper on both looks to be same as the paper on my specimen on both notes. This would point to all three being forgeries from the same source.
* the obverse of the 1 gulden is crude and the circle around the 1 is overinked, and similarly many of the lines are too fat
* the ‘1s’ on the back I think is a fantasy. The note is supposed to have a watermark of 1s and lines, but these are over printed not true watermarks.
* I am not sure what the reverse of the 1000 gulden is supposed to be, but the one above is odd
* my KUKI says that the 1000 gulden is made from ‘kertas bergaris’, which is I think ‘ribbed’ paper
* the lion on the 1000 gulden is a sad specimen.
* there are various small differences between the two 1000 guldens in the printing. So they are not from the same plates.

Clearly both the above notes are fake. They are being sold at €1600 and €400 respectively.

The seller may be selling them in good faith, he told me of the 1000g:

“I collect notes all 20 years,mostly from the Netherlands and colonies,because I was working 15 years in holland and I like them very much.This note was one of my colleague( in Holland),when he wants to by this tipe note in UNC condition he solded this note to my friend(he is also collect notes) hier in Hungary.I buyed from him 4 years ago.Solong is this note is my property.”

 

The Standard Catalog Of World Coins entry for this type:
1991    67,000,000   –   0.10   0.20   0.50   1.25   1992    70,000,000   –   0.10   0.20   0.50   1.25   1993    120,000,000   –   0.10   0.20   0.50   1.25   

1994    300,000,000   –   0.10   0.20   0.50   1.25   

1995    591,880,000   –   0.10   0.20   0.50   1.25   

1996    –   –   0.10   0.25   0.60   1.25   

1997    150,000   –   0.10   0.25   0.60   1.25   

1998    150,000   –   0.10   0.25   0.60   1.25   

Exhibit C:

My purchase of all the coins, plus the 1999-2002 (aluminium) 50 rupiah coins for $3.75

Exhibit D:

The 1997 coin for $9.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110318868897

“This Coin 50 Rupiah year 1997 is the Rarest among Indonesia Republic Coins since the first minted.And its really really rare.”

Sold.

Exhibit E:

my reply from the seller, when I questioned if it was really worth $9.99 (this was before he found a buyer)

I do hope you don’t mind I explaint about my opinion re.” 50 rupiah is the rarest among Indonesian coins”,what I mean is coins as legal tender.This explanation doesn’t mean I want to argue about it but at least I could give you the information about the actual situation in the market and the difficulty to get those 2 type of coins. Second thing I do hope you will not misunderstand at my limitation of my English language.
Here the explanation :
First : I am pretty sure that 50 rupiah is the most dificulty to get or at least the most I could say that 50 rp as rare as 1 sen 1952.
This my reason : I started curious about 50rp1997 was in 2002,so what I did was going to the bank axchanged the circulated 50rp97 and I found only 2 pcs in every 1000 pcs circulated coins.in that year 2002,I did that many times that the everage random only 2pcs in every 1000pcs…..that in 2002.Then I did do that until 2007.Thre was anouncement from governmnet (as usual) that in everycertain period the government withdraw certain money,like coin that the government melted them after they think the value is not representative anymore with the present value.(like now government start withdrawing 100rp coin year 91 up to98). Let me continue,……After the government anouncement,I started again to do what I did in 2002 (as far as I know,that time no one of Indonesian numismatist reize that,might be there is….possibility only 1 or 2 person
…perhaps!!).I was in a hurry going to the bank and exchange to 50rp coins. In 2007,I found only 1 pcs in every 1000 pcs.It didn’t last long because most of 50rp had withdrawed by government to melted down. Then 1 or 2 of my friend (indonesian numismatists relize then followed what I did re 50 rp97).In a few months they give up and they only got few of them.Then in 2008,I can not find anymore.Well,Might be at present I could find e few peaces but it would be very very difficultto find.
Second….if we base on the total minted which 1 sen 1952 was minted with total 100.000 while 50rp97 was minted 150.000 and also much alder……yes You are right that 1 sen 52 is the rarest……but that coin(1sen1952) the government didn’t melt them down. So my consideration base on that background and the fact,I still beleive that 50rp1997 is the rarest.

Conclusion:

How much is this coin really worth? Is the 1997 (150,000 minted) really worth the same as the 1995 (592 million minted). Clearly not. Will the next edition of the Standard Catalog of World Coins have a new value for this coin? Maybe. If so, that may appear to be the ‘true value’, and if you are a dealer who obtained 100 of these coins at face value in 1997, you may be quite happy selling them at say $5 each. If people want them, and that’s what it says in the book, I guess that is what they will go for.  And how about the 1998 (same mintage). Is this as scarce? Maybe the people searching bank rolls haven’t even noticed yet. Or maybe they are still scarce, but for some reason not so scarce, more went into criculation.

Clearly these coins are substantially scarce, with the majority of their everyday users treating them with the contempt that would seem to befit a coin worth half a cent, and substantial numbers melted down. The scarcest decimal Netherlands Indies coin, aside from the initial 1854 1/20 guilder coins, is the 1883 quarter guilder, valued in the Standard Catalog of World Coins at $200 in BU (which is lower than the strangely overvalued, and much more recent, 1933 grapes mint-mark half cent (5 million minted), with a BU value of $300 – six times higher than 1921 with only 4 million minted (here the ‘it says these coins are worth $100 in my book’-syndrome drives pricing to an extent – these coins sell below book, but above what they should)), thanks to a mintage of 800,000.

So what will these coins be worth in 50 years time? I would guess more than the inflation-adjusted $1.25, but then with the 1952 1 sen (100,000 minted) still available for around $2 in BU, who’s to say?

Like everything else value is a reflection of supply and demand. How many dealers have got stacks of these stored up? Who knows. Time I guess will tell.

 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 03:38:45 AM by thelawnet »

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Very interesting post. Thank you! This sort of situation occurs more often and it’s a nightmare for KM’s coin pricers (I am one, to be exact, I also price this particular coin. However, the last word on pricing is with KM, not me).If you subscribe to the above quoted statement, the problem is in type collectors versus date collectors. To type collectors, the date is irrelevant. Therefore, if one date is scarcer than another, their demand for this date will drop until all coins of the same type are priced equally. Typically, date collectors reside in the country the coin was meant for. Therefore, the more people in this country collect coins, the more you will see date prices diverge. Also, prices of older coins diverge more by date than prices of coins still in circulation.Second: sloppy statistics and no stats on coins destroyed. Undoubtedly, the mintage figure of 150 000 comes from an oficial source, but what does it mean? These figures are usually the number of coins produced in the calendar year. However, were all coins dated in that year? It seems likely that dies are used until they are either worn or as soon as they are needed, not until 31st December or from 1st January. This may explain why your correspondent (who seems serious and well informed) says nothing about 1998, which has the same mintage according to KM.

More important, I don’t think f(price) = (supply,demand), but f(price) = (catalogue price quote). If I price a coin at 10 dollars, dealers will want $10. If they can’t move it for $10 the price will not drop, but they will no longer stock the coin. A collector who can’t find the coin will not drive up the price, but keep hunting. This is called market failure: markets are too thin (not enough supply and demand) to form a price; the catalogue makes the market.

So how do I operate as pricer? I keep a large data base of coins offered in the area I price. I have no sales of the 1997 coin, but the latest 1998 offers I have average at about $0.60 for unc. In view of the mintage figure, I would have concluded that the price for 1997 is the same and the type is overpriced. Now, with this information, I need to reconsider.

Your source say he finds one or two copies in a batch of 1000 coins. According to mintage data, there are about 1 million copies of the type struck, so there are around 1500 in circulation with the date 1997. That doesn’t make it a rare or even a scarce coin. The sale of $10 confirms this. Based on mintage figures, I would have expected an occurrence of 6/1000, though. Therefore, the coin may very well be harder to find than the mintage figure indicates.

So now, the problem is, should I assume that Indonesians have started collecting coins on a significant scale to make a worldwide difference or should I continue to price the type as if the market is dominated by type collectors? Market indicators are mixed and unreliable.

What do you think?

Peter

 
 

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An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

thelawnetAC/DC Numismatist.
Senior MemberOffline

Posts: 245

  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo « Reply #2 on: January 29, 2009, 04:58:51 PM »  

Quote from: Figleaf on January 29, 2009, 02:36:21 PM

Very interesting post. Thank you! This sort of situation occurs more often and it’s a nightmare for KM’s coin pricers (I am one, to be exact, I also price this particular coin. However, the last word on pricing is with KM, not me).

If you subscribe to the above quoted statement, the problem is in type collectors versus date collectors. To type collectors, the date is irrelevant. Therefore, if one date is scarcer than another, their demand for this date will drop until all coins of the same type are priced equally. Typically, date collectors reside in the country the coin was meant for. Therefore, the more people in this country collect coins, the more you will see date prices diverge. Also, prices of older coins diverge more by date than prices of coins still in circulation.
The problem with type collecting is that the types are not necessarily what the catalogue says they are. I count six distinct Netherlands Indies 1/10 guilder types, and if you include mintmarks and mintmark variations there are 13 different coins, even ignoring the date. The catalogue lists only four types. Much better to have them all. 

Quote

Second: sloppy statistics and no stats on coins destroyed. Undoubtedly, the mintage figure of 150 000 comes from an oficial source, but what does it mean? These figures are usually the number of coins produced in the calendar year. However, were all coins dated in that year? It seems likely that dies are used until they are either worn or as soon as they are needed, not until 31st December or from 1st January. This may explain why your correspondent (who seems serious and well informed) says nothing about 1998, which has the same mintage according to KM.
I’m not sure how long you have been maintaining this section. Did you source the mintage figures?

I tend not to trust them 100% simply because there are too many gaps (look at the bimetallic 1000 rupiah), and it seems slightly curious that 1997 and 1998 should both have mintages of exactly 150,000.

When I bought my 50 rupiah there was little competition, as shown by the fact that I was able to buy a dozen of them for $3.75 (30 cents each).

The face value, in US$ terms, of these coins is very low. For instance, the 1991-1998 100 rupiah is catalogued at $0.60 in UNC, $1 in BU (though given the age of the coins, they all tend to be brilliant, assuming they are unirculated). These coins are worth $0.01 as currency. Though they are no longer produced, mintages range from 41 million to 800 million. Given their 1 cent value it does not follow to me that they are worth any more than the UK 1p coin, which is catalogued at $0.20 in UNC (no BU value is listed). The cost of acquiring these coins is 1 cent, so they are really only worth 1 cent + dealer’s markup. If $0.20 is the value of an unc. UK 1p (a price which reflects the fact that you can acquire these coins at face, or not waste the time and buy them from a dealer instead), then I’d say that’s true of a $0.01 too.

If you look at the 1000 rupiah bimetal, this is catalogued at $3.50 and $5 in UNC/BU, with no other values listed. These prices are pretty outlandish, these coins are worth $0.10 FV, so perhaps $0.30/$0.50 would be more appropriate. Obviously they are appealing to collectors in ways that other Indonesian coins are not because they are bimetallic, but given the numbers minted this should really affect supply, not pricing – in other words more collectors buying them should mean higher supply, meaning the dealers collect more profit by selling more for ($0.50 – $0.10), not higher prices.

But when the seller whose correspondence I quoted listed a year set (6 coins) of these for sale, I was underbidder at $6.10 against the selling price of $6.60.

And the winning bidder was an active Indonesian dealer. I was surprised – I thought ‘this guy must be crazy, paying $6.60 for $0.60 worth of coins’.

When a similar lot was listed by the same seller, I upped my bid, figuring it was worth overpaying against face in order to complete my collection. But I didn’t win that lot either, and it sold for $10.51 to the same dealer that won the previous lot.

I didn’t really realise what was going on, but last week an Indonesian poster here:

http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?showtopic=22611

decided to show off his collection of rare date coins.

The coins? Some Indies coins, the 50 sen 1954 and the 50 and (a very worn looking) 1000 rupiah 1997.

So it seems that the 1000 rupiah type sets were going so high because of the 1997. Who knows how much the dealer would have been willing to pay for this coin as a normal sale. My guess is that the others are worth face, but this coin is worth $10 or more in Indonesia.

FWIW, the mintage figures listed in Krause are:

1993: 5 million
1994: 6 million
1995: 19.9 million
1996: –
1997: –
2000: –

The last ebay sales were at $1.80 for 2 1996s and $2.13 for 4 1996s.

Quote

More important, I don’t think f(price) = (supply,demand), but f(price) = (catalogue price quote). If I price a coin at 10 dollars, dealers will want $10. If they can’t move it for $10 the price will not drop, but they will no longer stock the coin. A collector who can’t find the coin will not drive up the price, but keep hunting. This is called market failure: markets are too thin (not enough supply and demand) to form a price; the catalogue makes the market.
If a dealer buys 1933 1/2 cent grapes MM at half of book value, but then cannot make a profit on resale, it is true that he will not stock them. But if he can easily buy them at face for pennies, he will take what he can get. The Paper Money catalogue has gross overpricing on recent issues due to the fall of the rupiah (many years ago now, but still), but this does not inhibit sales, people just pay a little over FV, rather than the ludicrous catalogue prices.

Quote

So how do I operate as pricer? I keep a large data base of coins offered in the area I price. I have no sales of the 1997 coin, but the latest 1998 offers I have average at about $0.60 for unc. In view of the mintage figure, I would have concluded that the price for 1997 is the same and the type is overpriced. Now, with this information, I need to reconsider.
I would have thought the same, but the availability data does not bear this out.

Currently on ebay a dealer has a BU roll for sale:

$1.75 each

http://cgi.ebay.com/INDONESIA-50-RUPIAH-1998-BU-KOMODO-DRAGON-LIZARD_W0QQitemZ330298936580QQihZ014QQcategoryZ162151QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

An Indonesian seller has 3 used examples for $1

http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-3-Set-Rp-50-rp-Rupiah-Coins-World-Indonesia-IDR_W0QQitemZ260345775466QQihZ016QQcategoryZ162151QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

And there’s one for sale starting at €1
http://cgi.ebay.com/INDONESIA-50-rupiah-1998_W0QQitemZ190282895656QQihZ009QQcategoryZ534QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

No 1997s. The average coin dealer sells so many low valued world coins he’s probably not going to even notice that he’s never handled one, and wouldn’t realise if he did.

Quote

Your source say he finds one or two copies in a batch of 1000 coins. According to mintage data, there are about 1 million copies of the type struck,
One billion I think you mean.

Quote

so there are around 1500 in circulation with the date 1997. That doesn’t make it a rare or even a scarce coin. The sale of $10 confirms this. Based on mintage figures, I would have expected an occurrence of 6/1000, though. Therefore, the coin may very well be harder to find than the mintage figure indicates.
150,000 / 1,000,000,000 is 1 in 7,000. Which is a pretty thankless task to find – if you have to sort through 100 rolls of 100 coins to find 1 of these, I think you deserve more than $1 for doing so.

But as we’ve said the mintage figures are unreliable. It seems Indonesian numismatists were not finding these coins even 10 years ago. Maybe of the 150,000 many were never released into circulation. And maybe the numbers are not even accurate anyway. Why are the 1998s so easy to find when they too are apparently 1 in 7,000 coins?

And anyway, scarcity is a relative concept. Is the 5,000,000 mintage 1933 grapes m/m half cent scarce, as indicated by Scholten? My experience would be that it is not, they come up for sale regularly. They form about 5 in 1000 for all coins of this type.

Quote

So now, the problem is, should I assume that Indonesians have started collecting coins on a significant scale to make a worldwide difference or should I continue to price the type as if the market is dominated by type collectors? Market indicators are mixed and unreliable.

What do you think?
There are a number of factors here. If Indonesian collectors have decided that these coins are scarce, they become more desirable and the price rises. The market for Indonesian paper money is much more liquid and the popular notes rise in price much faster than certain scarcer issues. Money follows money. So I’d say that if Indonesian collectors identify 1997 50 and 1000 rupiah coins as scarce, even if they are not, the price will rise and so will demand, people hunting for the ‘hot’ coin.

A good example of this is the Irian Barat 100 rupiah bank note. This is catalogued in the Standard Catalog at $45 VF, $110 in UNC. Yet these notes in KUKI are $500. Suddenly they are hot, desirable, and part of a short set of five Irian Barat notes. Are they rare? Not so much. But not common so that somebody has 100 of them to sell. So when they come up for sale in UNC occasionally, they fetch $500-$1000 to Indonesian collectors. Even if you had a few, you could sell them bit by bit.

Yet in 2005 7 of these notes were sold at Stacks from a US diplomat’s long-time collection, and realised low prices. A lot of 4 in grades from VF to CU sold together for $60. That was their value in the US to US collectors. Would they sell for that price now? Maybe not. The dealers know they are worth more – this UK dealer has had one for £495 ($1000 when she first listed it) http://www.katespapermoney.co.uk/category.asp?ID=169 for a while now.

Has this driven the price up outside Indonesia? Yes, definitely. I know that I cannot go back to 2005 and buy CU notes for $50. So when I had the chance to buy one in VF for $70, I jumped at it. Market forces at work, my realisation that I would never again pay the 2005 price means I’m happy to pay for much more, but still less than what collectors would pay.

This only works because of a genuine shortage of supply combined with a collector perception of desirability. Other scarcer notes you can pick up for a fraction of the price.

 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 05:02:06 PM by thelawnet »

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  The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo) « Reply #3 on: January 29, 2009, 11:49:52 PM »  

It’s a case of supply & demand.The price will stay low,even though it may be scarce,because there is a lack of demand for that particular coin.As soon as the demand for a coin increases,then the price can shoot straight up accordingly.

Occasionally,you can buy them cheap knowing in hindsight that the price could have gone up a few years later.

This was definitely the case when I bought my example of the Chatham Islands $5 coin for double the face value.Now,it is worth way over NZ$100.Some dealers are still pricing that coin too low at NZ$120 or NZ$150.I reckon it should be worth NZ$200 minimum,due to its scarcity.

Aidan.

 
 

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thelawnetAC/DC Numismatist.
Senior MemberOffline

Posts: 245

  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo « Reply #4 on: January 31, 2009, 12:17:03 AM »  

Quote from: Figleaf on January 29, 2009, 02:36:21 PM

So how do I operate as pricer? I keep a large data base of coins offered in the area I price. I have no sales of the 1997 coin, but the latest 1998 offers I have average at about $0.60 for unc.
Can you provide a bit more information about your database? Do you compile it manually or do you have some automated tools? On big coins, the price is probably the last auction price. For instance, the Batavian Crown, a handsome chunk of silver, of which 6 specimens survive, is listed in KM as:

Coin Mintage VG FINE VF XF UNC BU   
1645 Rare – – – – – – –
Note: D.A.P. Coins private sale 3-89 XF $32,000

A search on ‘coinarchives.com’ shows three recent sales:

http://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotviewer.php?LotID=319760&AucID=232&Lot=5080, an aXF lacking eye appeal at $28,000 in September 2006

and the DAP coins example listed above in June 2003 at $70,000 http://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotviewer.php?LotID=117883&AucID=99&Lot=1116

and then the same coin sadly entombed in a plastic slab and sold in the overhyped ‘Millennia Collection’ for $115,000 http://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotviewer.php?LotID=532600&AucID=387&Lot=909 in May 2008

But Indonesia 50 rupiah coins are not sold at public auctions, so where do you get your prices?

 
 

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FigleafAdministrator
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Posts: 11 030

 

  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo « Reply #5 on: January 31, 2009, 12:37:25 AM »  

The data file is in Excel. I get fixed price lists from a number of dealers and see some auction catalogs. I put them in semi-automatically: I have made a macro, where I put in the seller’s data. The procedure is:

a) create a new line by hand
b) copy down the data for the coin from the previous offer by hand
c) run the macro for seller data
d) add grade and price or price formula by hand

Prices are maintained in dollars. If the offer is in another currency, the original amount is multiplied by a conversion rate through a formula created by the macro. I can therefore check both the original price, which is in the formula and the dollar equivalent.

The method is labour-intensive, so it’s hard to keep up with incoming information. One advantage is that I buy from the dealers offering fixed price lists, so I can allow for strict or less strict grading and a tendency to price high or low. In addition, I try to weed out old data superseded by new sales, which is even more labour-intensive.

Another remaining problem is that most types usually come in two or three first level grades, while KM wants four. I therefore have to extrapolate to calculate missing price levels.

Clearly, this is no scientific undertaking. In spite of this, I can’t think of a more objective method.

Peter

 
 

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thelawnetAC/DC Numismatist.
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  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo « Reply #6 on: January 31, 2009, 01:15:23 AM »  

Quote from: Figleaf on January 31, 2009, 12:37:25 AM

The data file is in Excel. I get fixed price lists from a number of dealers and see some auction catalogs.
The dealers’ prices are just that – prices. The value is when they’ve sold it at that price.  I have noticed that many dealers seem to sell over catalog price, whereas auction prices for common items are in most cases at or below catalog value.

Quote

I put them in semi-automatically: I have made a macro, where I put in the seller’s data. The procedure is:

a) create a new line by hand
b) copy down the data for the coin from the previous offer by hand
c) run the macro for seller data
d) add grade and price or price formula by hand

Prices are maintained in dollars. If the offer is in another currency, the original amount is multiplied by a conversion rate through a formula created by the macro. I can therefore check both the original price, which is in the formula and the dollar equivalent.

The method is labour-intensive, so it’s hard to keep up with incoming information. One advantage is that I buy from the dealers offering fixed price lists, so I can allow for strict or less strict grading and a tendency to price high or low. In addition, I try to weed out old data superseded by new sales, which is even more labour-intensive.
When you say you buy from them, I guess you mean other coins, not necessarily the ones you are pricing. So if a dealer prices seems to price 25% too high, you can reduce the prices by that amount?

Quote

Clearly, this is no scientific undertaking. In spite of this, I can’t think of a more objective method.
One thing I have considered is archiving ebay results. Ebay is a very interesting market. It is more efficient than most, and accurate up to items costing at least a few thousand dollars. For certain items, such as the scarcer Netherlands Indies paper money, prices are actually higher than other outlets. For instance, this JP Coen series 1000 gulden was listed at Bowers & Merena in October:

It’s very presentable (Fine) for its age, and has the JF van Rossem/LJA Trip signature combination. It arracted zero bids  at $240 starting price + BP

This similar note, albeit gVF, fetched $610 starting at $0.99 with 36 bids:

These higher denomination notes are scarce, and undoubtedly the B&M note would have sold on ebay, as there are plenty of people wishing to buy it.

Of course prices can wobble a fair bit. A few months back a seller acquired a number of VF-XF 1958 brown  5000 rupiah notes. The first ones to  be sold fetched $25 or more. By the time he had listed a few of them, demand was (temporarily) satiated, and prices fell, so I was able to pick one up for $8. So even ebay is not a perfect market. But it is good.

Anyway, I haven’t quite got around to writing the code yet, but it’s quite simple to build such a database.

Essentially:

Nethelands Indies coins (and paper money) sold by date:

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/items/Coins-Paper-Money__netherlands-indies_W0QQLHQ5fIncludeSIFZ1QQLHQ5fPrefLocZ2QQLHQ5fCompleteZ1QQ_flnZ1QQ_fromfsbZQQ_sacatZ11116QQ_sopZ10QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em283

and then spider each page with images and save the title to a database for searching purposes. Unfortunately ebay’s completed items search only shows the last 15 days, hence the need to archive.  There’s a company called Terapeak, which sells more complete past auction results, but unfortunately ebay kills the auction pages after 90 days, so that’s the most you will get. It isn’t really sufficient when you want to know the price something sold for, and the last time it sold was last April.

There are still some variables of course. Sellers with a good track record fetch higher prices. US and British sellers tend to fetch higher prices. Some sellers are selling foreign material, but refuse to ship outside their own country. These get lower prices. If a seller is selling an uncirculated coin for $2 + $1 shipping and another sells it for $1 + $4 shipping, is the value, $1, $2, $3, or $5? Equally, if a seller is selling many items at the same price, the individual items will get better prices because of postage savings (this really only matters in the $1-$10 range).

I actually have my own database in the form of my Auction Sentry archive, which keeps track of the sold price of all the items I’ve viewed (note, I would not recommend this program, as I have found that AuctionDefender looks to be better, but I am tied into Auction Sentry), but it does not save the old pages, so it’s not always possible to see condition.

Do you btw have a list of good dealers for Indies/Indonesian items?

 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 01:17:11 AM by thelawnet »

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FigleafAdministrator
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  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo « Reply #7 on: January 31, 2009, 01:58:45 AM »  

Yes, I don’t know which coins sold and which didn’t, but if they’re not sold, the dealer will list it again (unless the coin is offloaded to a colleague). You can’t negotiate on fixed price lists.

Pricing is not a science, it’s an art. If I see a surprisingly low price and notice it came from a sloppy grader, or a surprisingly high price coming from a dealer who’s generally too expensive I ignore the data if I can, or adjust it to the best of my knowledge if info is scarce.

I don’t think eBay is a reliable source of prices. For one thing, I expect that rational prices would include a risk premium deduction for certain coins, as so many are fakes. Examples are coins coming from sellers in China, Indonesia, Russia and Roman coins from Balkans based sellers. For another, both buyers and sellers can be naive (to put it politely). Consider the rijksdaalder coarse hair you just bought. That transaction should not be counted when pricing for a catalogue. Neither should the price of “New York pennies” count as a price for a VOC duit. Yet another consideration is the scam artists, who post pictures of different coins or don’t deliver. In 2007 (I think), a scammer operating from Germany offered a large number of Monaco euro sets. The price for the sets went down quickly, but none were ever delivered and the scammer just collected the money. That severe price dip should not be recorded. Then, there are the people who price the coin very low and ask a high amount for postage to minimize eBay fees. They distort pricing. The list goes on …

Peter

 
 

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thelawnetAC/DC Numismatist.
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  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo « Reply #8 on: January 31, 2009, 02:37:57 AM »  

Quote from: Figleaf on January 31, 2009, 01:58:45 AM

I don’t think eBay is a reliable source of prices. For one thing, I expect that rational prices would include a risk premium deduction for certain coins, as so many are fakes. Examples are coins coming from sellers in China, Indonesia, Russia and Roman coins from Balkans based sellers.
You would think so, but that is not the case in my experience. People pay big $$$ because there are so many people looking at ebay. More buyers means more sales. The competition cancels out the risk factor. Also sellers that are honest will get better prices. And fake coins can be identified from pictures. There is a fake coin database at http://www.forgerynetwork.com/

I personally have completed hundreds of transactions with Indonesian sellers and have received only a tiny number of fakes. Most fakes I see actually come from Malaysia and Singapore.

Quote

For another, both buyers and sellers can be naive (to put it politely). Consider the rijksdaalder coarse hair you just bought. That transaction should not be counted when pricing for a catalogue. Neither should the price of “New York pennies” count as a price for a VOC duit.
I agree on both counts. Yet these are the exception rather than the rule. There are equally plenty of dealers offering fixed prices because they lack knowledge. I went through the list of IBNS dealers for Netherlands Indies paper money. Most dealers had diverse catalogues of world money and priced at catalogue price + markup through lack of knowledge. Yet, there were a number of notes that I knew would sell for double on ebay, or on the market in Indonesia (where prices are higher than in Europe).

For instance, how many dealers have copper bonks for sale?

The results of this auction (albeit that the photo is poor):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110328371745

are much more informative than a dealer coming across one, listing it for sale at the catalogue price and selling it.

Quote

Yet another consideration is the scam artists, who post pictures of different coins or don’t deliver. In 2007 (I think), a scammer operating from Germany offered a large number of Monaco euro sets. The price for the sets went down quickly, but none were ever delivered and the scammer just collected the money. That severe price dip should not be recorded. Then, there are the people who price the coin very low and ask a high amount for postage to minimize eBay fees. They distort pricing. The list goes on …
It does depend on what you are looking at. And while Indies/Indonesia coins are not particularly liquid, the paper money market is much more so, and certain items fetch a similar price (higher than catalog) over and over on ebay. If you have six sales in a year of the same item at a similar price, I’d say that is the correct price. The market dictates the value.

Want to know how much KM8.1 Irian Barat 25 sen 1962 is worth (no price listed in catalog)?

Here’s an answer:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110342091961

 
 

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fishflyNew MemberOffline

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  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo) « Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 03:33:40 AM »  

“or on the market in Indonesia (where prices are higher than in Europe)”

Good Morning Thelawnet,
Why do you suppose the prices are so much higher in Indonesia? I agree they are out of line, but can not figure out why.
The one public coin dealer I have found here in Bali has, for example:
Netherlands East Indies 1945-p 1/2 cent graded XF (is listed at .50 USD in Standard Catalog of World Coins). The local dealer has them at set price of $15.00 USD.
All of his examples are priced just as high.
I wonder if he moves very many at this price? Other web sales are listed at around .60 USD if I remember right.

 
 

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borgxNew MemberOffline

Posts: 12

  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo) « Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 06:49:10 AM »  

Quote from: thelawnet on January 29, 2009, 03:36:21 AM

…..
Like everything else value is a reflection of supply and demand. How many dealers have got stacks of these stored up? Who knows. Time I guess will tell.
Indeed a very interesting post.. Why Indonesian coins/banknotes price is higher in Indonesia? I dont know.. simple market mechanism perhaps? There also more demand as more newbie collectors comes up. I think you can’t judge or analyze the price based on ebay. People on Indonesia tend to buy collection on dealers and stores. Internet still not a very populer way to buy things here, you know.. poor internet connections, expensive bandwidth cost..

I found Tiger 1957 XF sold at $71 on ebay.. on stores it would cost 150 to 170$.. and people still buy it..

On Java Auction 2009, i saw two ugly Tiger 57.. Vf.. poor colour, probably washed, opened at 100$.. they sold at 130 and 140 not including 15% fee..

 
 

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FigleafAdministrator
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  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo « Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 07:43:37 AM »  

As a general rule, supply of coins is the best and prices of coins are highest in the coin’s own country. British coins are simply more expensive in Britain than in the Netherlands and vice versa. The most obvious reason is that people tend to collect the coins of their own country, so demand is concentrated. That also means that the time it takes for a mediocre British coin in Britain to sell is significantly shorter in the Netherlands. Dealers know this and price the coin accordingly.

However, these examples show really wide price differences. Nothing can explain a price of $15 for a 50¢ coin. I stand by that price of 50¢. I have a number of observations from dealers’ stock lists. One reason may be a shallow coin market: limited access to the net, few dealers, no good price references. Another may be that people tend to collect coins of their own country by date, those of other countries by type. Therefore foreign collectors will refer to the cheapest date and indigenous collectors to the most expensive date.

Peter

 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 08:30:54 PM by Figleaf »

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An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

thelawnetAC/DC Numismatist.
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Posts: 245

  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo) « Reply #12 on: August 14, 2009, 07:06:12 PM »  

Quote from: fishfly on August 12, 2009, 03:33:40 AM

“or on the market in Indonesia (where prices are higher than in Europe)”

Good Morning Thelawnet,
Why do you suppose the prices are so much higher in Indonesia? I agree they are out of line, but can not figure out why.
The one public coin dealer I have found here in Bali has, for example:
Netherlands East Indies 1945-p 1/2 cent graded XF (is listed at .50 USD in Standard Catalog of World Coins). The local dealer has them at set price of $15.00 USD.
All of his examples are priced just as high.
I wonder if he moves very many at this price? Other web sales are listed at around .60 USD if I remember right.
Well this coin is incredibly common, and it may be that this dealer sells to fools, in essence. There are companies in the West doing the same, marketing common crap for high prices, though this usually comes through print advertisements, but depending on the type of store (mall location?) they could get people walking in thinking ‘this is old, this must be worth something’.

I get the impression that the coin market in Indonesia is actually quite slow, with little interest from collectors. I’ve come across a dozen or so blogs and websites on Indonesian numismatics, and they all focus on banknotes. I buy coins from ebay sellers in Java, and I can win with below-catalog prices on most of the decimal Indies coinage. The prices are certainly lower than Western sellers selling on their websites. Even at Java Auction (www.javaauction.info), where the realised prices for banknotes are frankly ludicrous, you can find scarce patterns as well as other coins selling for less than they would fetch on a 7 day auction ebay, let alone a standalone seller such as Rondomons.

 
 

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thelawnetAC/DC Numismatist.
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Posts: 245

  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo) « Reply #13 on: August 14, 2009, 07:24:26 PM »  

Quote from: borgx on August 12, 2009, 06:49:10 AM

Indeed a very interesting post.. Why Indonesian coins/banknotes price is higher in Indonesia? I dont know.. simple market mechanism perhaps? There also more demand as more newbie collectors comes up. I think you can’t judge or analyze the price based on ebay. People on Indonesia tend to buy collection on dealers and stores. Internet still not a very populer way to buy things here, you know.. poor internet connections, expensive bandwidth cost..

I found Tiger 1957 XF sold at $71 on ebay.. on stores it would cost 150 to 170$.. and people still buy it..

On Java Auction 2009, i saw two ugly Tiger 57.. Vf.. poor colour, probably washed, opened at 100$.. they sold at 130 and 140 not including 15% fee..
I don’t understand Java Auction. I’m not sure if people like to buy there for cultural reasons, but I have been offered notes from Indonesian sellers at a fraction of the Java Auction price.

Here are some items that sold in Holland in April:

5 gulden silver certificate 1846 XF, €200
Java Auction lot 661 – XF, €320 (equivalent) – starting bid, not sure final price

10 gulden silver cert 1846 UNC (Nice example) €280
Java Auction 662 only AU €390 (start bid)

1000 gulden 1926 Fine  €300
Java Auction 703 VG-Fine €353 (start bid)

Obviously the final bids may have been higher.

I think the arbitrage opportunity is decreasing, compared with 5 or 6 years ago, where you could buy items for perhaps $100 in the US or the UK that command $1000 prices in Indonesia – this is because more auctions are online, and so are more Indonesian collectors.

I’m actually quite surprised there were several banknote lots at $35,000+ in the Java Auction. Evidently a rich man’s game – and maybe it is just that, a status symbol for rich people.

 
 

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Samuel TanNew MemberOffline

Posts: 47

  Re: The uncertain concept of value and rarity – Indonesia 50 rupiah coin (komodo) « Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 02:36:51 AM »  

Figleaf your statement regarding the local market price is higher is correct if the country as many local collectors. I was living in (West) Germany and The Netherlands briefly, that was the case. but I was born and start collecting in Indonesia. They don’t have collectors over there, I know it. The poor worry about to meet their needs, the rich will collect big paper money to feet their greeds, not coins. I was an odd ball. But then internet business came, dealers can sell direct to the “Foreigners” at higher price. the don’t know the market price, so they try to ask for much higher price. Their culture ask highest price first, then negotiate. They succeeds, people pays. You have to deal with their way. They know that foreigner or tourist will pay top dollar for common coins, they can’t get to it. I am planning to go to Indonesia in the next months. I am a local person, I know I can get a reasonable price. And I am a collector, I will do it for love not profit (I am talking about coins of course . Lets swap, no money changing hands, no over priced based on KM catalog. Give me your list, I will see what I can do. I can’t guaranteed rare coins but we are talking about common coins. Most newer Indonesian coins are common, remember they have 4th largest populations in the world, they got to mint a lot.
Samuel Tan
samueltanh@gmail.com

 

4 responses to “All Numismatic Collectors Must read This Info in CD-ROM

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